Whose Voice Should We Listen To?

by AGuest 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    NVL..

    If you try adult conversation instead of pictures and sniping comments you'll get
    discussion instead a time out in the corner. It's the inverse of the golden rule,
    you are being treated just like you have deserved.

    Did you know people who don`t understand sarcastic humour.. Are prone to Dementia in later years..

    Your probably already 1/2 nuts..LOL!!

    I did read them. If you felt I was pissy....well. Oh well. See my comment above.

    Time in the corner?..

    Theres a comment from a "Jolly Soul!"..LOL!!

    Your pissed off and don`t have the courage to admit it..

    Oh, I read it and I understand it. It's just not internally consistent at all. Questions that point that out tend to be viewed as caustic. When someone tried to be snarky with
    comments and pictures and get beat down like a redheaded step child that's talking back...well, I can see why you wouldn't like that either.

    If you understood..You would`nt be asking Questions..After Shelby has "Already" given you the Answer..

    Your not comprehending what is being said to you..

    Lets try something simple,to get you and Shelby on the same page..

    Do you know how Shelby aquired the ability to Talk to Jesus?..

    It`s there in her post to you..If you don`t get it..Say so..

    And..

    I will explain it to you..

    ........................... ...OUTLAW

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Did you know people who don`t understand sarcastic humour.. Are prone to Dementia in later years..
    Your probably already 1/2 nuts..LOL!!

    Oh, I get it. And when I get old I might get dementia, but until then, you're just gonna have to act like an adult or get treated like a child. Sorry I have to make you mad when you get put in the corner, but what I can I say, someone has to be the adult. Now, do you want milk or juice with your cookies and cartoons after your nappy time?

    Time in the corner?..
    Theres a comment from a "Jolly Soul!"..LOL!!
    Your pissed off and don`t have the courage to admit it..

    Not really. It takes more than someone acting like a petulant child that needs a timeout on the internet to piss me off. Sorry :)

    Do you know how Shelby aquired the ability to Talk to Jesus?..
    It`s there in her post to you..If you don`t get it..Say so..
    And..
    I will explain it to you..

    I read it and it's fine, I understand it. It in no way, however, answers the questions I have posted. Either you can't or won't. I am presuming, that since you're keep trying to be snarky and cut me down, you can't. Maybe after your nappy time and cartoons you'll find a funny picture to post. Won't that be nice dear?

  • undercover
    undercover
    My Lord's voice is not in my head, dear Heathen (and peace to you!). It is merely on a "frequency" that cannot normally be heard by the human body (which is why animals can see/hear spirits much more readily and easily than humans)... unless (1) that body has been "prepared" so as to do so (Psalm 40:6), and/or (2) that person occupying that body has enough faith (Romans 10:17- KJV, NIV). I have mercifully and graciously been granted the GIFT... of both (Luke 11: 13; 8:13).

    Well then...

    There's no arguing with that, is there...

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    Oh, I get it. And when I get old I might get dementia, but until then, you're just gonna have to act
    like an adult or get treated like a child. Sorry I have to make you mad when you get put in the corner,
    but what I can I say, someone has to be the adult. Now, do you want milk or
    uice with your cookies and cartoons after your nappy time?

    Actually..I spend most of my time here,laughing my ass off..LOL!!..

    I`ll take Juice..No cookies..Got any Vodka for the Juice?..

    Not really. It takes more than someone acting like a petulant
    child that needs a timeout on the internet to piss me off. Sorry :)

    My humour Eludes you.....You must really be Nuts..LOL!!

    I read it and it's fine, I understand it. It in no way, however, answers the questions I have posted.
    Either you can't or won't. I am presuming, that since you're keep trying to be snarky and cut me down, you can't.

    Lets see if theres any Truth to your Words..

    NVL.. My question still remains, why doesn't god do that for everyone? .. It's a question, not an argument. The question is that, if god cares, why would he only physically manifest himself or angels to certain people to inspire faith? why not everyone? why can some people pray all their life and seek god only to be empty? Either god is too busy, doesn't care, isn't listening or doesn't exist.

    Shelby.. Now to the "why" as stated above: your position is WHY... hasn’t He manifested Himself… to YOU.

    And I told you why. NOT because you don’t believe He CAN… but because you don’t believe He WILL

    . With YOU. You asked… but NOT EXPECTING TO HEAR ANYTHING. As I shared with you, though, faith…

    This is one of the reason why no spirit being has appeared to YOU: although you may deny this truth and think that you could handle it, I would wager that you could not. Indeed, I almost had a heart attack the first time I saw my Lord as he really is. Took me several additional times… and in small stages… before I could “behold” him in full. It wasn’t easy, I promise you.

    is… the… ASSURED EXPECTATION… of the thing HOPED for.This is one of the reason why no spirit being has appeared to YOU: although you may deny this truth and think that you could handle it, I would wager that you could not. Indeed, I almost had a heart attack the first time I saw my Lord as he really is. Took me several additional times… and in small stages… before I could “behold” him in full. It wasn’t easy, I promise you.

    Now..Let me put this in a way,you may be able to understand..

    There are 2 reasons,according to Shelby..

    Why you have`nt seen Jesus..

    #1..You don`t believe Jesus will show up,if you asked him to..

    #2..You could`nt handle it if he did..

    NVL..You ask Shelby questions and are Deaf to the Answers..

    That is just one example..

    ........................... ...OUTLAW

  • GromitSK
    GromitSK

    Shelby are you saying god will only show himself and give you proof if you believe he exists and that he will give you proof?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I am neither frustrated nor caustic. People often mistake pointed questions for someone being caustic.

    My apologies, dear NVL (peace to you)! You kinda "sounded" caustic but, then again, it is writing, so I may have mis"heard" you...

    god or his angel acting on his behalf caused a physical manifestation in a place where moses saw it because he wanted moses to hear him (regardless of whether or not moses would agree or care). My question still remains, why doesn't god do that for everyone?

    Because, dear one... IT SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY. It shouldn't HAVE to get to that point. I think I've answered that one no less than 3 times now.

    Does he not care about us as well?

    Of COURSE, He does! That is WHY He sent His Son... AND told us to listen to THAT ONE.

    Moses didn't have to tune in, all he had to do was...nothing.

    Moses was going to lead the nation of Israel out of Egypt, dear one. Before that, he was going to have go up against the KING of the land. Pretty much by himself. He needed Moses to pay attention. With regard to the OTHERS, though, the manifestation was the result of them NOT listening/hearing/seeing. It was, well, as they say, "The writing on the wall." That usually happens when all other options have been exhausted. Of course, now you're going to say, "Well, if He's God, can't He make a LOT of options?" to which I would respond, yes, but He can also choose NOT to. Right?

    But as I said, in MOST cases. In virtually every other case involving a SERVANT of God (thus, NOT Balaam, NOT Belshazzar, NOT Saul of Tarsus, NOT Pharaoh), they simply heard God speaking to them. Even when NO ONE ELSE HEARD IT. They heard... and they listened. And theyDID what the Voice told them to do. Because they BELIEVED it was the Most Holy One of Israel. Why? Because He identified Himself, whether before... or after... they asked.

    I'm not trying to have it both ways, I am asking a question about the need to tune in to hear god when clearly that isn't necessary if he wants someone to hear him.

    God is a spirit, dear one... and so it is WITH the SPIRIT that YOU are... that He WANTS... us to hear Him. We, though, keep trying to use our FLESH. The FLESH, however... IS OF NO USE AT ALL. And that is something "we" just don't want to accept. Truth IS... IF you have to use your flesh to hear/see God... then you're like Thomas... and NOT like those of whom my Lord spoke of TO Thomas, when he said: "So, you're happy now because you see the holes, and because you see the holes you believe? Happy are those who DON'T see... and believe!" What did he mean? Thomas NEEDED a PHYSICAL manifestation in order to believe. He needed to SEE it... with his eyes. Why? Because... THOMAS LACKED FAITH. Indeed, he said that UNLESS he saw... he WOULD NOT believe. And my Lord accommodated him. BUT... my Lord did not pronounce Thomas "happy.' Rather, he pronounced those "happy" who believed... IN SPITE of not being able to see with their flesh. Those... with FAITH.

    I am only allowing that he does for the purposes of the discussion since he hasn't in any verifiable way except as voices in people heads.

    What people? I have not told you of a voice in MY head...

    Which, BTW, raises another question, how does one determine between god and just regular old crazy voices?

    First, it would be [very] rare experience for it to BE the Most Holy One of Israel. 9.9 times out of 10... it is His Word. The Son. Second, ask. At least, initially. Until you come to KNOW that Voice of God's Son (or God Himself, should He speak - He has to me on 5 occasions. My Lord, on the other hand, too many times to count. More than I CAN count, actually...). Also, as dear PSacto stated, what is the voice TELLING you? Is it telling you to do/say something stupid, crazy, mean, hateful, harmful? Then it CAN'T be from the Most Holy One of Israel. It CANNOT.

    Yes, yes... I know, I know... what about all those accounts in the Bible? Dear one... don't look at/to the Bible. Look at... to... the Christ. What stupid, crazy, mean, harmful, hateful thing did HE ever tell anyone to say or do? And isn't HE recorded to have said, "I do NOTHING of my OWN initiative, but JUST AS I OBSERVE THE FATHER DOING, so I do?"

    The Bible is often the problem, dear one. Contrary to the many lies, it is NOT God's Word. CHRIST... is God's Word and the ONLY "voice" you should be listening to. The Bible is merely a compilation of scriptures, histories, records, chronologies, letters, etc., that TELL about God and Christ... and not entirely truthfully. As Jeremiah prophesied, "The stylus of the secretaries has worked in sheer falsehood." What does that mean? That MEN have changed, added, taken away, omitted, mistranslated, mistransliterated, and misinterpreted the scriptures, and thus, a good portion of the Bible. That is WHY Christ not only said "Woe" to the Pharisees... but also to the SCRIBES... those who had the responsibility of copying things "just so." Apparently, they DIDN'T. And so he said, "Woe to you... scribes AND Pharisees... hypocrites!"

    The question is that, if god cares, why would he only physically manifest himself or angels to certain people to inspire faith? why not everyone?

    The Most Holy One of Israel doesn't manifest Himself to anyone... except the Son. It is the SON who speaks to us and shows himself to us and it is by means of seeing HIM... that we can "see" God. Like Medusa. You can't look her straight on, so you have to look at her reflection. Into a mirror or shield, etc. Christ... is the mirror. Look at HIM... and "see" God. But... you have not ASKED for him, so AS to see him. And you certainly don't LISTEN to him... because if you DID, it would START with his invitation.

    why can some people pray all their life and seek god only to be empty? Either god is too busy, doesn't care, isn't listening or doesn't exist.

    The Most Holy One of Israel is not too busy, dear one. Nor is He afar off. The problem is that such people seek Him on THEIR terms... and not on HIS. They want to do it THEIR way... rather than through HIS "Way" - Christ. HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life... and NO ONE... NO ONE, dear NVL... not even YOU... cam come to the Father... UNLESS THEY GO THROUGH HIM. No one. You KNOW this... yet, you try to "climb up" some OTHER "way." YOUR way. And then you wonder why you can't get in. (Hopefully, this is an "aha"... or maybe even a "duh"... moment for you - !)

    To the point about asking, you said your friends were asking for wisdom. that's what solomon asked for. Why would that be a bad thing?

    My dear ones weren't asking for wisdom. They are asking to know "stuff." For knowledge. But simply knowing stuff doesn't make one wise, dear one. All sorts of people know stuff. Or think they do. And they're as stupid as... well, you get my drift. If my dear ones were really wanting WISDOM... again, they would have asked... for Christ. For he IS Wisdom. TRUE Wisdom. Personified.

    would a parent blame their child for asking when they would be fed if they were hungry? if that's god's attitude, then god is a bad parent.

    How about this:

    "Therefore, if YOU , although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven giveholy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11:13

    And this:

    "Now on the last day, the great day of the festival, [Jesus] was standing up and he cried out, saying: “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He that puts faith in me, just as the Scripture has said, ‘Out from his inmost part streams of living water will flow.’”However, he said this concerning the spiritwhich those who put faith in him were about to receive; for as yet there was no spirit, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:37-39

    And this:

    If you had known the free gift of God and who it is that says to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given youliving water.” Whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty at all, but the water that I will give himwill become in him a fountain of water bubbling up to impart everlasting life.” John 4:10, 14

    And this:

    "Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my bloodhas everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day;for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me." John 6:52-57

    And this:

    "Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of YOU; for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." Mathew 26:27, 28

    And, finally:

    " Come!”And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirstingcome; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.!"

    Now, I ask YOU: if YOU are REALLY hungry/thirsty... why do YOU not eat... and DRINK... the "refreshments" that have been offered YOU?" You've heard the invitation, haven't you? Yes. BUT... you have let "men" tell you that it is NOT for you... that God does NOT speak to you. THAT IS A LIE! He HAS spoken to you... and YOU have not LISTENED. But... it does NOT have to BE that way, dear one!

    It started with the invitation. Now... the ball is in YOUR court. You want to hear/see God? Then why do you not do this very SMALL thing that He asks of YOU?

    I would try to find out from him how much of the batshit crazy stuff in the bible is true.

    I'm curious (and sincere), dear NVL (again, peace to you!): out of all the things you COULD ask... why would THIS be what you'd want to know?

    Hopefully, what I have shared with you has caused you to have an "aha" moment. Maybe several. But you cannot blame God now. Now you HAVE heard. It is up to you, though, as to what you will DO about what you have heard.

    I bid you peace... and ears the HEAR as the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

    "Come! Take LIFE'S WATER... the holy spirit of God (which spirit will grant you even more capacity to hear and see things you've never thought imaginable... things of the SPIRIT... and NOT of the flesh)... free!" There is NO cost, dear NVL... other than you own choice and will.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Shelby are you saying god will only show himself and give you proof if you believe he exists and that he will give you proof?

    No, dear Gromit (peace to you!)... I am not saying that. Dear NVL asked why HE didn't hear God... and I responded: because he didn't believe he would. He got what he "hoped" for... his "assured expectation"... which was nothing. He was assured that he could expect nothing... and that's what he heard. Didn't mean my Lord didn't speak. Just meant dear NVL didn't EXPECT to hear anything... and so, he got what he "hoped" for.

    I hope this helps.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    There are 2 reasons,according to Shelby..

    Why you have`nt seen Jesus..

    #1..You don`t believe Jesus will show up,if you asked him to..

    #2..You could`nt handle it if he did..

    Those are not reasons. I could not beleive the sun will rise tomorrow but that won't stop it, just like god when he wants someone to hear him. Conversely, I could WANT it to rise but that won't be the reason it does. And since neither you nor Shelby know me in the slightest, you couldn't possibly have any insight into the second reason.

    Actually..I spend most of my time here,laughing my ass off..LOL!!..

    I`ll take Juice..No cookies..Got any Vodka for the Juice?..

    People laughed at the idea that the titanic could sink, that the germans could take over the words or that tiny invisble bugs existed. Did you have a point?

    NVL..You ask Shelby questions and are Deaf to the Answers..

    That is just one example..

    But I do see them when I look at the monitor. If it were god, the screen would be blank and I would have to squint hard and beleive that the words were there, I suppose.

    Now, you can't drink with the adults until you grow up and can learn how to have an adult discussion and debate. No milk or cookies or juice for you. You can have your Boots the monkey doll for your nap, though.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    And since neither you nor Shelby know me in the slightest, you couldn't possibly have any insight into the second reason.

    Actually, I could have such insight, dear NVL (again, peace to you!). For three reasons:

    1. You are not all that different from other human beings, really, including myself. Although we have different personalities, born of our difference life experiences and environments, earthling man really doesn't differ that much... from man/woman to man/woman. This is something even the "demons" know... which is why they make earthling man their targets;

    2. You... and most people... DON'T believe my Lord will actually show up/speak if you ask him to... because, in truth, you don't REALLY want him to. Because THAT might mean some kind of responsibility on YOUR part (i.e., if my Lord spoke to YOU as he speaks to ME... he might tell YOU to come here (or somewhere else) and post "crazy" stuff like he tells ME... which will make people think YOU'RE "crazy"... and, well, we can't have that, can we?).

    3. My Lord knows what is "in" ALL men (or women)... and when one is in union with him, one kinda is able to "see" things like that (i.e., what is "in" another person). It's the whole "light shining on" them thing. That's one of the privileges of having received holy spirit, actually. Not that it happens in ALL cases, but in quite a lot of them, it does.

    I understand WHY you're trying to argue your position, dear NVL: what I am sharing is FRIGHTENING. Because... what if it iS all TRUE?? I mean, JUST when you think you've completely gotten AWAY from God and Christ (because, if the WTBTS... or whatever religion you may have put your faith in isn't "it"... then there IS no "it")... and so no longer have to "serve" anyone or anything... here comes this! But I assure you, it is true. Praise JAH, it's just not enslaving and binding as religion is.

    To the contrary, though, it is TRUE freedom... because ALL that you do in regard to the TRUE God... the Most Holy One of Israel... all that ANYONE does... HAS to do... is by CHOICE. I am Christ's slave... because I CHOOSE to be - not because he makes me. True, I can't HELP it, but not because I gave up my free will. It is because I was GIVEN BACK my free will... and as a result have come to LOVE the One who gave it to me!

    This discussion started because you stated that you DID "listen" but DIDN'T "hear" anything, dea NVL... and asked why? I was permitted to explain why: because you didn't believe you WOULD hear anything)... which is the truth. You can deny it... or try to color it any way you wish so that you can "look" at in a way pleasing to YOU... but you know it... and I know it. If you DON'T know it, then all you need to do is look into YOUR heart (as I suggested before)... and not continue to "fool" us into thinking that you really don't care (which isn't true)... or "fool" yourself by trying to see what you WANT to see instead of what is truly there (which isn't always easy to look at).

    So, now, let's leave off this... ummmmm... "unfruitful" interchange. We have pretty much stated our respective positions and there really isn't anything more to say, really. Or is there? I mean, should you actually have had an "aha" moment - that until now you have been LIED to and for the FIRST time someone is telling you the TRUTH about God and Christ (which, based on what I shared... and your subsequent silence, I am led to believe you did), then praise JAH! May the heavens rejoice!

    And if you didn't, no worries. In either case, I bid you peace.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    My apologies, dear NVL (peace to you)! You kinda "sounded" caustic but, then again, it is writing, so I may have mis"heard" you...

    Not a problem at all.

    Because, dear one... IT SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY. It shouldn't HAVE to get to that point. I think I've answered that one no less than 3 times now.

    It shouldn't be necessary to have a rule to not pee in the swimming pool, but it is. I don't see the point with that.

    Of COURSE, He does! That is WHY He sent His Son... AND told us to listen to THAT ONE.

    OK, fine.Same question. I would love to see him, to hear him, I WANT to, but since he won't talk back, I have to conclude that he isn't there. Jesus appeared before Thomas when Thomas doubting, why am I not worthy as well?

    Moses was going to lead the nation of Israel out of Egypt, dear one. Before that, he was going to have go up against the KING of the land. Pretty much by himself. He needed Moses to pay attention.

    You specifically avoided answering the question by talking about what moses was going to do. Up to that point all he had done was commit murder. This was an example of god's angel appearing to someone one in a physical manner without that person being tuned in. Moses, at that point, was a married sheep herding murderer.

    "The writing on the wall." That usually happens when all other options have been exhausted.

    There are no examples of other options being tried with Moses, Neb, Balaam, etc. Yet the physical manifestions occured. Please explain.

    IF you have to use your flesh to hear/see God... then you're like Thomas.

    And Jesus promptly appeared to Thomas. Please explain how he needed to "tune" in somehow? He was the doubter. He expected to NOT see/hear Jesus and he did. If your reasoning is true, that if you don't expect to see or hear god or Jesus then you won't, why did Thomas?

    What did he mean? Thomas NEEDED a PHYSICAL manifestation in order to believe. He needed to SEE it... with his eyes. Why? Because... THOMAS LACKED FAITH. Indeed, he said that UNLESS he saw... he WOULD NOT believe. And my Lord accommodated him. BUT... my Lord did not pronounce Thomas "happy.' Rather, he pronounced those "happy" who believed... IN SPITE of not being able to see with their flesh. Those... with FAITH.

    Wait, so you have said that in order to hear, I beed to beleive, but that Jesus appeared to Thomas (and others because they didn't beleive and needed the proof? You contradict yourself. You also tend to throw up an argument and then proceed to explain what you think I would respond with and shoot that down. Since my question really hasn't changed, please let ME respond since I can write my responses much better than you can write them. Otherwise, I could just write yours, such as:

    Me: you just contradicted yourself.

    You: No I didn't.

    Me: yes you did,

    You:Yes I did.

    Me: see? you did it.

    You: but I prayed for the wisdom to contradict myself.

    Me: WTF?

    See? Let's stick each writing our own responses.

    The Bible is often the problem, dear one.

    I agree. Then why do you keep quoting from it?

    "Therefore, if YOU , although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven giveholy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11:13

    Well, I asked. I got nothing. Parents feed their children even when they say they aren't hungry or have a bad attitude. God is still a bad parent. And why did you quote the bible if it is often the problem?

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