Whose Voice Should We Listen To?

by AGuest 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    If someone wants to tell me something, they call me. They don't tell me to learn morse code and change the channel.

    Ummmmm, if they call you... and your phone isn't charged... then what?

    So why do you keep quoting them? Why you do quote things that aren't inspired of god? Why are you spreading false and uninspired words?

    I can tell by your gravatar date that perhaps you're new here, so I will explain: unfortunately, there are some people, like yourself perhaps, who don't believe ANYTHING... unless they see it. Or see what THEY consider to be "evidence" of it. I would LOVE to simply share what I get and not use "the Bible." Unfortunately, I get more folks asking mere "where is it written"... than I get asking me "why do you use the Bible." Sort of that "danged if you do, danged if you don't" thing. Sometimes some don't believe it even when they SEE it in writing. In the Bible.

    But my messages usually aren't to such ones. It's directed more to those who either (1) get the message because it is TRUE, which their spriit bears witness to, and so don't even need to look anything up, or (2) get it, but feel they need to be a bit more sure, or want to understand it completely, and so look it up. Others like to see the verses in case THEY need to share the truth with someone else, someone who needs to see it in writing.

    But that's why what I share is addressed to "the Household of God, Israel... and those who go with." Because most of THEM rely on my Lord, the Holy Spirit... and by means of him, holy spirit that is IN them... to teach them... and so really don't give what I post much thought (well, the fact that I posted it). They know that I am merely working out MY own salvation... as our Lord has directed ME... while they are working out their own. But they are all supportive, even if they don't all publicly declare that here, and for that I am extremely grateful.

    You're changing the subject.

    Hmmmm. I mean, I don't think I am: you wrote that you were listening; I wrote that you didn't really expect to hear (which means you weren't actually and/or fully listening... ).

    And if God is talking, I would have no choice but to hear.

    Ahhhh, here is where you are in error, dear one. You absolutely have a choice. That which is spirit is not the same as that which is physical. When a physical sound is made, IF you have enough hearing capacity, you will hear it. With the SPIRIT, however, it is all ABOUT choice. You see, we very often DON'T have a choice with regard to the things physical. For example, our bodies will very often have IT'S way... regardless of what we want or choose. Sleep. Eat. Poop. Blink. Give in to indulges, addictions, habits, etc. Demand things from us... then deny us. Betray us.

    With the SPIRIT... EVERYTHING is choice. That was the issue placed before Adam and Eve. It was the challenge made against all mankind starting with Job. It was the reason for my Lord's attempted "temptation." It is all ABOUT choice.

    And... you chose NOT to hear. How? By believing that you WOULDN'T. So, the thing YOU "hoped for"... which was nothing... is what you received.

    Yet he is silent.

    Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, dear one. Spirits are ANYTHING but silent. Unlike physical man they don't shut down; they don't sleep. The don't "rest" as we do. Excluding the one moment of silence (for a half hour) in the spirit realm... the ONE thing that there isn't in the spirit realm... is silence. And the Most Holy One Himself... speaks. Constantly. It's just that He DOES it... through His Word, Christ. So, if you were expecting to hear God HIMSELF speak... you really WERE on the wrong "channel."

    And they only had faith AFTER hearing.

    After hearing... what? Who? True, faith FOLLOWS the thing heard... allows the thing heard to LEAD. But it doesn't always come AFTER faith. Indeed, it TAKES faith... but only the size of a mustard seed... TO hear. After THAT... THEN Christ "finishes" your faith. He grants you the FULL "measure."

    Paul (who wrote hebrews

    Paul didn't write the letter to the Hebrews, dear one...

    whom you claim wasn't inspired yet you just quoted)

    I did not say that Paul wasn't inspired, although, I would say, and did imply, that his letters weren't inspired. They weren't. "Scripture" is inspired... of GOD (and surely you've read that not all inspired expressions originate with God). It is written when the writer is IN SPIRIT. Has transcended the flesh. Then, while such one is IN SPIRIT... they are TOLD... to write... and told BY the HOLY SPIRIT (i.e., "borne along") WHAT to write. I quote Paul:

    "... to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord..."

    "Now concerning virgins I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who had mercy shown him by the Lord to be faithful..."

    What about Luke? Let's see, starting with his gospel account:

    "Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts that are given full credence among us, 2 just as those who from [the] beginning became eyewitnesses and attendants of the message delivered these to us, 3 I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order to you, most excellent The·oph´i·lus, 4 that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally."

    Where are the "many" compilations he spoke of? At the time he wrote his gospel account, only Matthew's had been written. Where are the others? He also said he received what HE did... from "eyewitnesses and attendants"... who "delivered" them to him. Where was the Holy Spirit? Where did that One bear Luke along? And WHO did write to? The congregation? Body? Nope. Theophilus. And why? Because THEOPHILUS commissioned him to write... NOT God. What about his account of the Acts of the Apostles? He writes:

    "The first account, O The·oph´i·lus, I composed about all the things [Jesus] started both to do and to teach..."

    Again, he was writing to ONE individual, Theophilus. He wasn't writing "to the Hebrews" or "to the..." whatever congregation. The accounts were for ONE person, the one who commissioned them, Theophilus, who wanted to know whatt the HECK was going on between the "christians" and the Jews... and what was all the talk he was hearing of "miracles" about. READ the accounts, dear NVL, and you will see THESE truths for yourself. Maybe.

    And what of Paul's FIRST letter to the Corinthian congregation?

    From his SECOND letter, yet named in the Bible as his FIRST - "In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators,not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world.But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator..."

    FROM his THIRD letter, yet named in the Bible as his SECOND - "This is the third time I am coming to YOU. “At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established. I have said previously and, as if present the second time and yet absent now...

    ... he went on to write:

    "I say in advance to those who have sinned before and to all the rest, that if ever I come again I will not spare you, since YOU are seeking a proof of Christ speaking in me, [Christ] who is not weak toward YOU but is powerful among YOU ."

    But what happened? Just a year AFTER dear Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves"... he wrote to the Romans, "Who are you to judge the house servant of another?" and "... why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written: “‘As I live,’ says JAHVeH, ‘to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to God.’”So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God. Therefore let us not be judging one another any longer..."

    So, either Paul was a "victim" of the same "new light" kind of "[Holy Spirit]" (i.e., one that doesn't know what it wants or believes itself)... just like the WTBTS is... or the Holy Spirit wasn't involved at all and he wasn't inspired when he wrote these things. Which is the case: Paul was a former Pharisee and had to LEARN, first. He had to be SHOWN (see in red, below). Which is why he and the 12 didn't get along; indeed, they went on separate missions that spanned 14 years... and didn't even see each other during that time.

    was FORCED to listen.

    Unlike the Apostles, who were NOT forced to listen... Paul WAS forced to listen for a REASON: his bloodguilt. Stephen was SUPPOSED to cover the ministry that Paul was given. But... Stephen was dead. WHY was Stephen dead? Because PAUL was instrumental in having him PUT to death. Thus:

    "... Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, in order that he might bring bound to Jerusalem any whom he found who belonged to The Way, both men and women. Now as he was traveling he approached Damascus, when suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him,and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”He said: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am [Jesus], whom you are persecuting. Nevertheless, rise and enter into the city, and what you must do will be told you.”

    "There was in Damascus a certain disciple named An·a·ni´as, and the Lord said to him in a vision: “An·a·ni´as!” He said: “Here I am, Lord.”The Lord said to him: “Rise, go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man named Saul, from Tarsus. For, look! he is praying,and in a vision he has seen a man named An·a·ni´as come in and lay his hands upon him that he might recover sight.”But An·a·ni´as answered: “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many injurious things he did to your holy ones in Jerusalem.And here he has authority from the chief priests to put in bonds all those calling upon your name.” But the Lord said to him: “Be on your way, because this man is a chosenvessel tome... I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name.”

    And so it was only after many years (close to 30) of suffering for my Lord's name that could Paul FINALLY say:

    "... all of YOU among whom I went preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. Hence I call YOU to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men [including Stephen's]... for I have not held back from telling YOU all the counsel of God."

    I understand that you may believe the Bible to be "inspired" dear NVL, but it is not. Truly. Which is why is causes SO much division and controversy. Why so many have died... even been put to death... because of it. It is NOT God's Word. CHRIST... is God's ONLY Word... and if one listens to HIM... one does not need the Bible. Indeed, one does not need ANYONE to be teaching them... because they will have the Law of the NEW Covenant written on their HEARTS, and God will speak to them from THERE... through Christ. So that they will not have to say to their brother, "Know JaHVeh"... because they will ALL of them... know the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... by means of and through knowing His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. He IS alive... and speaks.

    Again, may that One grant YOU ears to hear... if you truly DO wish them.

    Peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    Thank you, Miss Shelby.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Good morning Shelby!!..

    Trying to get everyone tuned into Chanel Jesus?..

    LOL!!..

    I`ve never heard anything..I can`t even hear the TV sometimes..

    I`m not sure I want to hear spirits talking..Thats just a little Freaky..

    Maybe Jesus does`nt talk to me..

    Because..He does`nt talk to Agnostics..

    OR..

    He does`nt want me to Die of a Heart Attack..

    LOL!!..

    I hope your having a good weekend my Friend..

    Take Care..

    ............................. ...OUTLAW

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Ummmmm, if they call you... and your phone isn't charged... then what?

    Then they I, dunno, leave a message, try again later, email me, write me a letter, come over to my house.... I guess god is either too lazy or doesn't care enough, eh?

    I can tell by your gravatar date that perhaps you're new here, so I will explain: unfortunately, there are some people, like yourself perhaps, who don't believe ANYTHING... unless they see it.

    And there are some suckers that will believe anything, like perhaps you. Was there a point in that "you're a newbie so let me explain how things work around here...". Here's a hint, I ain't newbie at too many things.

    I did not say that Paul wasn't inspired, although, I would say, and did imply, that his letters weren't inspired.

    A distinction without difference. Let me re-phrase....why are yoyu spreading uninspired messages?

    So, either Paul was a "victim" of the same "new light" kind of "[Holy Spirit]" (i.e., one that doesn't know what it wants or believes itself)... just like the WTBTS is... or the Holy Spirit wasn't involved at all and he wasn't inspired when he wrote these things

    And that sounds just like you....you know better, you know more, god revealed to you and all these other people got it wrong....you sound JUST LIKE THE WTBS.

    It is NOT God's Word. CHRIST... is God's ONLY Word... and if one listens to HIM... one does not need the Bible.

    The stuff Jesus taught was being taught at least 2000 years earlier by babylonians. why is Jesus more special? He was nothing original or special. And you are 100% right about one thing, no one needs the bible.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Whose Voice Should We Listen To?

    That depends Abraham was a little nutty and he almost sacrificed his son.

    I would conclude then that listening to voices has its draw backs it all depend on how gullible you are and if your going through postpartum depression or have schizophrenia. Some voices may be harmless and just some alter ego type thing, it may be intuition, or just some type of loud thinking.

    When one gets to identify with voices from God there is the problem of inflation of the the ego or consciousness being swallowed up by the unconscious part of the Psyche and that is not good and can lead one to all sorts of problem and can screw up a lot of people like it did to the Jim Jones people or the Dravidian's.

    If you hear voices it may be wise to see a good psychologist.

  • Darth plaugeis
    Darth plaugeis

    Do you have aluminum foil on your head as you type?

    I listen and agree with my old friend John Lennon

    God is a concept By which we measure Our pain

    I don't believe in magic I don't believe in I-ching I don't believe in Bible I don't believe in tarot I don't believe in Hitler I don't believe in Jesus I don't believe in Kennedy Í don't believe in Buddha I don't believe in Mantra I don't believe in gita I don't believe in yoga I don't believe in kings I don't believe in Elvis I don't believe in Zimmerman I don't believe in Beatles

    I just believe in me And that's reality The dream is over What can I say? The dream is over Yesterday I was the dreamweaver But now I'm reborn

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Ahhhh, here is where you are in error, dear one. You absolutely have a choice. That which is spirit is not the same as that which is physical. When a physical sound is made, IF you have enough hearing capacity, you will hear it.

    Oh, and based on thwe bible, it is you who are wrong. Let's look at some examples...

    - God had a message for Adam, he heard it.

    - Moses...check burning bush gave him no choice but to hear

    - Balaam...angel forced him to hear the message

    - Pharohs....yep, they hear the message either in dreams or plagues as proof

    - Paul....forced to hear it

    - Joseph (both of them)...god came in a dream and he had to hear

    - Daniel had visions, he couldn't make them not happen

    - Message to Nebuchanezzar written on the wall, had no choice but to see it...

    Shall I go on? If god wants someone to the message, they will. And it is often a physical presence and sound.

    Spirits are ANYTHING but silent. Unlike physical man they don't shut down; they don't sleep. The don't "rest" as we do.

    Wrong, the bible said god rested.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I am going to skip responding to your penultimate response, dear NVL (again, peace to you!)... as well as to dear Frankie's (you're just way too "intellectual" for me, dear FS, so no point, truly. But, peace to you!)... and dear Darth's (peace to you, as well!) because I love John Lennon's music and I don't believe in any of those people/things, either (note, while dear John did pen "and no religion, too", which I TOTALLY agree with... he didn't pen "and no God" - I'm just sayin'...). Moving on...

    - God had a message for Adam, he heard it.

    Actually, he chose NOT to hear it, didn't he? He chose not to LISTEN... just as YOU chose not to listen.

    - Moses...check burning bush gave him no choice but to hear

    Not true. Like MANY a heartless human, he COULD have turn and ran back down the mountain. Instead... he CHOSE to check it out.

    - Balaam...angel forced him to hear the message

    Wrong again. Balaam actually made a different choice... than his donkey. It was when the donkey spoke to him that he DECIDED he had better listen and find out what the heck. Prior to, however, he actually ignored the angel.

    - Pharohs....yep, they hear the message either in dreams or plagues as proof

    Surely you jest. Pharaoh not only CHOSE not to hear... he even did so after seeing various phenomena that SHOULD have forced him to listen... and hear. He SHOULD have asked... I'm thinking maybe after Moses staff swallowed up the sorcerer's staffs... "Hey, who'd you say sent you? Why isn't he talking to me himself? Is it something I'm doing? What can I do so that he'll take to ME?" I mean, that's what I would have asked...

    - Paul....forced to hear it

    Answered and explained...

    Joseph (both of them)...god came in a dream and he had to hear

    Nope, wrong again. People ignore their dreams all the time. Both Joseph's could have chosen to do the same. It is because they DIDN'T... but instead CHOSE to LISTEN to what they were being told in their dreams... that they heard.

    Daniel had visions, he couldn't make them not happen

    Sure he could! All he had to do is what MOST of earthling man does: CHOSE to DENY the visions... and their source. If we took a poll right now, 95% of the people on this forum would raise their hand (if they were truthful) if you asked, "How many of you have 'seen' or 'heard' things... and then told yourself, 'Naaahhhh, I didn't really see or hear that?" People do it everyday... sometimes several times a day. And why? Because religions, such as the WTBTS... those who claim to KNOW... those who SHOULD know... say, "Oh, no, God does not speak to humans (okay, excluding the Pope, GB, Pat Robertson, Joseph Smith, etc.). DEMONS speak to people and so IF you hear a voice... you should NOT respond. Because GOD... although Almightly and more powerful than demon... and CHRIST, to whom ALL authority has been given, in heaven and on earth... DON'T speak."

    And so you know WHY they say that? Because.... THEY DON'T HEAR, themselves! Nor do they SEE. Because... they are BLIND guides, dear one. Deaf... and blind. And, unfortunately, you have believed them. Take care that they don't lead YOU into the very pit THEY are walking into.

    - Message to Nebuchanezzar written on the wall, had no choice but to see it...

    Ummmm... first, I'm thinking that was Nebuchanezzar's son, Belshazzar, and second, we are talking about hearing... and you don't hear writing. Be that as it may, I would think, given the circumstances surrounding "the writing on the wall"... one would hope to HEAR about something like this (i.e., what it is pronouncing)... than to have to wait and SEE it inscribed in this way. Unfortunately, Belshazzar had made HIS spirit HARD. What does that mean? Well, it is with the SPIRIT (the man on the INSIDE) that one listens to and hears God. If Belshazzar's spirit was HARD... then he WOULDN'T listen. He CHOSE not to.

    Shall I go on? If god wants someone to get the message, they will.

    Certainly. But you might want to note that the ONLY ones He MADE listen... were those who WOULDN'T. Those who WANTED to hear... heard... and did so without any problem.

    And it is often a physical presence and sound.

    Sometimes, yes. Often... no. Usually... it is a SPIRIT[UAL] presence... and sound. Both can be discerned by the flesh, however, IF such flesh has been PREPARED.

    the bible said god rested.

    And, yet, "The Bible" also quotes my Lord as saying:

    "My Father has KEPT WORKING until now..."

    Which is why I stated that they do not rest "as WE do."

    I bid you peace, dear NVL... and ears TO Hear, if you so wish them.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    My dear Palm... dear Outlaw... and other dear ones who greeted me with kind words:

    As always, may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH be upon each of you... and your entire households... to time indefinite!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Actually, he chose NOT to hear it, didn't he? He chose not to LISTEN... just as YOU chose not to listen.

    Adam heard god walking through the garden and had to hide...he heard despite his wishes.

    Wrong again. Balaam actually made a different choice... than his donkey. It was when the donkey spoke to him that he DECIDED he had better listen and find out what the heck. Prior to, however, he actually ignored the angel.

    Wow, cogntive dissonance has set it. When someone is standing in front of you and talking, you see that person and heard them whether you want to or not. You can choose to ignore them, but you still see and hear them. Same with Moses. You are wrongfully equating agreeing and listening with seeing and hearing.

    Ummmm... first, I'm thinking that was Nebuchanezzar's son, Belshazzar, and second, we are talking about hearing... and you don't hear writing. Be that as it may, I would think, given the circumstances surrounding "the writing on the wall"... one would hope to HEAR about something like this (i.e., what it is pronouncing)... than to have to wait and SEE it inscribed in this way. Unfortunately, Belshazzar had made HIS spirit HARD.

    You are correct, it was Neb's son. Point is, they had to see the hand on the wall and the words. They could choose to ignore them, but they were phsically manifested before them, just like the bush before Moses and the angel before Balaam. Again, you are equating agreeing with the message with hearing the message. My point is that when god wants to, he can force people to see and hear the message, no tuning required on the part of the listener.

    Certainly. But you might want to note that the ONLY ones He MADE listen... were those who WOULDN'T. Those who WANTED to hear... heard... and did so without any problem.

    Exactly, he can when he wants to. Why doesn't he do that for everyone?

    And, yet, "The Bible" also quotes my Lord as saying:

    "My Father has KEPT WORKING until now..."

    Which is why I stated that they do not rest "as WE do."

    So the Bible contradicts itself and isn't internally consistent. No surprise there. As long as you only pick the parts you like it's easy to like the Bible.

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