Calling Perry Out (and any others who want to participate)

by OnTheWayOut 150 Replies latest members adult

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I think those who scream the loudest about God's supposed evil tendencies are those who most fear the darkness in their own souls.

    I will stick with calling Perry out, but for the record I have no desire to rape or command rape or watch rape or hope that rape continues. That said, I do not fit the statement you made. I belonged to an organization (WTS) that bent over backward to explain or justify God's position in the OT if indeed it was God's position. I no longer go along with such justification. For the record, virtually none of the people that "scream" of God's evil tendencies really believe that God approves of the evil in the OT. They recognize that men have done the evil and claimed to follow God.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Points taken, OTWO.

    However, I personally believe that God did order the Israelites to wipe out the nations of Canaan, and that He was justified in doing so.

    There have been human leaders who have ordered far worse atrocities, so I don't get it why some make such a big deal of it.

    Sylvia

  • sir82
    sir82
    When challenged on the many versions of the ever evolving Bible, and asked which particular version he had, he gave no answer.

    On other threads, he has gone to great lengths to defend the King James Version. I believe he thinks most if not all other translations are "corrupted" somehow.

    Of course, the fact that the earliest manuscripts known were (A) written in Greek and (B) for the most part (hand) written centuries after the originals by (at least for the first few decades of that period) poorly educated, untrained scribes, appears to be utterly irrelevant to him.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR
    PSacramento: See, I try to reconcile my intellect with my faith and not the other way around, and that is a key element.

    I appreciate your honesty and your comments.

    I do not intend to sound condescending, or maybe I do, I am not entirely sure of my intention. Perhaps it fluctuates according to mood? Others are likely to make a more objective judgement of my comments than I can. 'Oh to see ourselves as others do.'

  • designs
    designs

    Don't they put blinders on mules to keep them plowing along with little distraction.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    I appreciate your honesty and your comments.
    I do not intend to sound condescending, or maybe I do, I am not entirely sure of my intention. Perhaps it fluctuates according to mood? Others are likely to make a more objective judgement of my comments than I can. 'Oh to see ourselves as others do.'

    Thanks and for what itis worth I do know that at times I sound "flip-floopy" or like an "accomodationalist".

    See, fundamentalist call me compromising or corrupted because I believe in evolution, and athiest call me, well, whatever they call me, because I am a Christian.

    All I can say is that since two EXTREMES see the "error" in my ways, I must be doing soemthing right !

    LOL !

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    The Hebrews of that time were obviously what anthropologists call a warrior culture. They have the same attitudes and morality of all the other warrior cultures I've studied, regardless of what God they worshipped, isnt that interesting?

    The Native American tribes of the plains had the same values towards captive women and slaves, as did the Mongols, the feudal era Japanese, the early Germanic tribes like the Goths, the early Celts, the Aztecs, the Mayans...I could go on and on, and even up to recent times there were tribes in New Guinea who lived the lifestyle of a warrior culture. They had almost exactly the SAME attitude towards women captives as stated above in Numbers for the Hebrews. Raping female captives is always a feature of such cultures. It's a way of humiliating and assimilating the enemy at the same time.

    The Human Genome project revealed that the maternal and paternal patterns of DNA are quite different for the human race. There's a distinct pattern of a few male DNA groups assimulating MANY maternal lines...in other words, you can tell the story of human conquest in earlier times by the pattern of conquering armies of men killing off rival males, and assimilating their females into their cultures. Best way EVER to get rid of an enemy in every way possible. Cut off the males passing on their DNA, and put your own into the enemy and they become part of your culture and lose their culture.

    Male lions do the same thing when they take over a pride of females and their cubs. On some levels, humans are just pack predators...we've behaved very much like lions for a good part of our history.

    Now, that tells me that this is just a feature of the rather barbaric (to our modern morality) of the warrior culture, a phase every human culture goes through at some point, and then MOVES ON, hopefully to something less barbaric.

    The taking of body parts of the enemy as trophies (foreskins, in the case of the Hebrews..it's thought by many anthropologists that circumcision by certain Semitic tribes came about as not only an attempt to set themselves apart, but to deny their enemies a very important trophy which dishonored their God, Yahweh. Having the God demand it themselves as tribute is also nothing new...I could show you ritual sacrifice of certain "extraneous" body parts or blood, hair, something in every warrior culture.)

    Warrior cultures make their gods or God into a conquering sky god too, inevitably. They associate him (and it's usually a masculine"father" deity) with the power of the Sun, thunder and lightening, and armies of minions to do their battles. Sound familiar?

    I'm never surprised at the violence and allowance of things that seem horrible and barbaric among the early Hebrews in the Bible. It was typical of the times. I don't expect them to be any better than any other tribal culture of the time, and for their god to be any different in some ways than any others.

    If you won, your God won, and if you lost, it was because God was mad at you, you'd been bad little warriors and hadn't made enough sacrifices or hadnt' obeyed your god.

    As nasty as it all sounds to somewhat more civilized us, it's just one of those stages human cultures go through to get more civilized, we hope. Seems to work that way, anyway.

    Religion is part of culture...it reflects the culture and occasionally even somewhat civilizes it but it's not going to make it jump past a usual stage of cultural evolution. That's not true of any religion, not even Christianity, one of the last of the biggies in religious cultural evolution.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    mindmelda has invaded the correct, taken its principles captive and done all sorts of naughty things to it and made it her own !!

    Well said.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Let's face, we're all captives of a concept.

    If it were not for the threat of hell fire or the fact that many of us live in a part of the world that is largely Christian, many of us might not be Christian.

    Some of us, like Perry, do a good job bringing up research to justify and apologize for the Bible's contents. Others like Shelby just take the position that she knows God personally and that the Bible is largely irrelevant. Still others like Stephen just lean on the Bible as it is. Then there are the rest of us Christians who try to cling to our faith in Jesus while trying to reconcile our own cognitive dissonance.

    We Christians can criticize Jehovah's Witnesses for not looking at the facts concerning their faith and tell them that they are captives of a concept while simultaneously not turning the eye of scrutiny on ourselves and our faith. It is the main reason why I've come to the point to where I respect people of all faiths (including witnesses) whether I agree with them or not. We all have faith of some kind but none of us can know empirically what happens when we die, other than the fact that our bodies decay and turn to dust.

    But hey, learning about the world's religions and different schools of thought make for an interesting ride. Last night at the Kingdom Hall, a brother approached me curious about my King James Bible. Showing me God's name and why they call themselves, Jehovah's Witnesses. I told him I'd read the passages and get back with him with my thoughts.

    So begins the next chapter in comparing doctrine, the God's name chapter. Good times.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Gary, ask him to prove to you that the OT god that they call Jehovah is the same god Jesus called "Father" using their purple Interlinear Bible, not just their English NWT.

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