Is Ray Franz still living?

by hungry4life 72 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  teejay

  All along he just wanted to make things right by his own concience,that says volumes about the man...

  Again... 'scuse me, Outlaw... you my boy and all, but what does the man have to do to show you people that he's a stand-up guy? I mean... WHAT?

  I'm at a loss. You say this latest news about him setting up his own website "speaks volumes..." The dude wrote a freakin' library of truth, helped tons of people he was in no way obligated to help, at 80 years of age is struggling to do for himself and his wife w/ no kids and no family to help him, and the first thing people want to do is question and criticize and infer something bad. Being a JW didn't do _some_ of us a damn bit of good.

  Why don't y'all get a grip and be thankful for what he did already? Goddamn.
• 

  OUTLAW

  teejay,you make it sound like I`m with some big crowd.I`m up on the side of a mountain with my dog.(LOL) When I thought he was taking the info away it made me sad.When I found out he made other arrangements for the info I was happy.Its that simple,nothing more.I am grateful for what he`s done.You misunderstand the intentions of my last post,it was not meant to be disrespectful.I admire he wants to dispense his information in his own way...OUTLAW
• 

  startingover

  I just finished reading this entire thread to this point. As I read it my emotions were on a roller coaster. The initial feelings I had were of disappointment, but his actions make sense to me now.

  It brings back memories when I first read C of C a year or so ago. When I got to the end I felt that RF could become another Russell if he wasn't careful. I also find it interesting that he retains belief in God and the Bible. His writings started me on a journey which has taken me away from that without regrets.

  S O
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Mad Cow Disease:

  Do you know what case codes are? There are three and four digit codes that identify the "nature" of the lawsuit filed before the court.

  Now, in an earlier post, I supplied the entire list of codes currently in use to categorize lawsuits before the court. The reason I made my initial announcements about the AMOUNT of suits against/involving the WTBS is because certain codes kept reappearing in the long lists of suits under the search word "WATCHTOWER".

  Now, I noticed immediately that only a small percentage of ACTIVE, OPEN cases involving the WTBS were of an administrative nature and coded as such; for example...property disputes, building permit suits, free speech and first amendment suits; etc...

  What shocked me was that a large amount of case codes were TORT, LIABILITY, INJURY, and YES MOLESTATION! I am sorry that that's the situation, but it seems all religions have this problem. Perhaps, mathematically speaking, given the amount of cases measured by the amount of witnesses worldwide, it could wind up a smaller percentage than other religions, on a per capita basis. I don't know.

  I didn't start compiling statistics and making comparisons with other religions, only that it was obvious that the majority of suits filed and open against the WTBS were NOT administrative. Simple.

  Visit you nearest federal court, and go to the clerk's office and ask to use the Public PACER computer to look up cases. When you do, ask them to see the "codes" and then perform a search under "WATCHTOWER" and wait till you see the list. As a member of the public, you will at least get to see the name of the case, the state it was filed in, the parties involved, the nature of the suit and the dates.

  If you want to prove me a liar, follow those instructions, pay for a few pages of printed copies of the docket cover sheets and then YOU post them here to shut me up. I told you how to do it, now put your money where you MAD COW MOUTH is and call my bluff!

  P.S. I am not an office clerk or para legal or reporter. I am a technology manager.

  I await your response!
• 

  MadApostate

  U.R. aLiar:

  My response is still the same:

  You are a fuckin' LIAR!!!

  You can make all the lameass excuses you want, but as I have already pointed out, it is ludicrious to think that all of these "HUNDREDS" of cases could be hidden away without there being a publicity trail from the time period when such court documents are publicly accessible.

  Your allegations are nothing but fodder for the all too plentiful "conspiracy theorists" here.

  You are nothing but a "memorial" to the dishonesty exemplified by all too many XJWs here.

  Hopefully, there are one or two folks left here that also knows you are a dishonest con-artist.
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Mad Cow Disease:

  Did you know that over 5,000 lawsuits are filed every year against Wal-Mart alone? Did you GM, IBM, and many other giant organizations are involved in thousands of case every year, ranging from sexual harassment, fraud, copyright infringement, unfair business practices, etc...

  The point was, that even with hundreds of cases involving the WTBS, it is still NOT enough to make CNN headline news. Only witnesses are paranoid and naive enough to believe their peculiar religion is on everybody's mind. Well, it isn't.

  Dateline has barely even moved a muscle and they have been given tons of material, testimonies, etc... Have they stopped the presses and pre-empted all programming to air the "Witness Story", no they have NOT. That's proof enough.

  All the cases in the world does not guarantee anyone cares or anyone is listening. It takes alot of activism, lobbying and political support to muster up the media for personal issues.

  Now, I offered you some simple instructions to follow at your convenience, in your local area. Prove me wrong. Get a print out of all the docketed cases involving the WTBS with the code numbers and post it here, so we can take a head count! I dare you! Talk is cheap and you haven't proved anything other than you get personal and vicious when you ammunition runs out.
• 

  MadApostate

  U.R. Liar:

  You are correct. TALK IS CHEAP!!!

  You are the one that has alleged the "HUNDREDS" of molestation, and other tort cases AGAINST the WTS, yet you have failed to produce any evidence to prove your allegation.

  The very LAMEASS EXCUSE that you provide, that you can't provide such documents on threat of losing your job, IS DISPELLED BY YOUR OWN INSTRUCTIONS re accessing the Pacer System, which indicates that such info is available to any member of the general public. WHAT ARE YOU? A SPACE ALIEN?

  WHAT A BUNCH OF FUCKIN' DISHONEST CROOKS INHABIT THIS BOARD!!!
• 

  JerryTX

  It is interesting to note that the Vatican church has annually budgeted multi millions of dollars to settle child molestation cases for years, and yet it didn't make the big headline news until about 10 years ago here in the USA. Yet child molesting priests have been a problem much longer than that.

  To think hundreds of cases filed against the Watchtower Society would be immediately noticed and picked up by the press and given heavy rotation on the evening news demonstrates a lack of sophistication, and naivete.

  Ministers, priests, deacons, elders have been fleecing, molesting, and engaging in other shenanigans with their flocks for years. It's an *old story.* Today a story like that hardly raises a surprised eyebrow anymore.

  --------------------------------------

  "The truth will set you free--but first it will make you damn mad."

  M. Scott Peck - "The Different Drum"
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  MAD Cow:

  Are you that THICK? Of course the majority of the information IS available to the general public, that's why the court provides a public computer on the counter for research.

  Now, is an employee of the court allowed to retrieve documents from open cases and post the information to anyone? The answer is no, unless you are one the parties in the case.

  If I were a simple case administrator working in a judge's session, or an intake clerk, and YOU were either an attorney, plaintiff or defendant or representative of the WTBS, I could look up and print out internal documents and motions, orders, summaries, opinions etc...and charge you for the paper.

  But I am NOT an intake clerk or case administrator, or trustee. I am in technology. Now, you can do what the general public is allowed to do, and that's review the dockets and list of open cases, and their codes. Again, I DARE you to try. Go ahead! You're brave and bold!
• 

  JanH

  Regarding Ray Franz, I have been legally threatened by him (or his coworkers) because I hosted a chapter from CoC on the web. I had obtained permission from him to do so, but obviously he changed his mind.

  See the letter on http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20010621&Category=GRABBAGSELECTION&ArtNo=10621001&Ref=AR

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets