God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff 322 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sir82
    sir82
    It is possible that God, even being omnipotent, could not create a world with free creatures who never choose evil. Furthermore, it is possible that God, even being omnibenevolent, would desire to create a world which contains evil if moral goodness requires free moral creatures.

    Then God really isn't "omnipotent", is he?

    Who or what determined the "limits" that this "almost omnipotent" God is bound by?

    Isn't that "who or what", by definition, stronger than God? So why worship the less powerful "God"?

    Or, on the other hand, if there is no "who or what" that created these constraints, they must be independent of God. So then why is God necessary? Couldn't everything have arisen in a vacuum, as most atheist contend?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Then God really isn't "omnipotent", is he?

    Or we misunderstand omnipotence. Even an omnipotent being might not be able to engage in logical impossibilities. "Can God make a rock so big that he can't lift it?"

    BTS

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Moar philosophizin'

    Just thinking out loud here:

    Hurricanes/earthquakes are natural processes.

    That we know of, Mars and Jupiter are uninhabited:

    Is a hurricane on Jupiter an evil disaster (I am thinking of the Great Red Spot)?

    Is an earthquake on Mars an evil disaster?

    Things are only disastrous in a human context, aren't they?

    We wouldn't be able to live without a natural process like gravity or we'd tumble into space. We need gravity, but a fall off of a tall building is disastrous--unless you have a parachute.

    It's the context, a natural process is evil when it causes suffering to human beings. A hurricane on Jupiter causes us no suffering.

    Suffering comes from evil, but is evil a thing? If my heart is weak and I need to take meds, is it an evil heart? Or is it the actual weakness that is evil? It's the condition of my heart that makes me suffer.

    Evil, which leads to suffering, is not a thing, evil is a condition that arises out of something else. An earthquake under Port Au Prince is evil, it causes human suffering. An earthquake under Olympus Mons causes no suffering, so it is not evil.

    If we had the power to dampen earthquakes or prevent them from doing harm to humans, would they still be evil? What about hurricanes?

    Is ignorance a moral evil? Maybe not....I certainly can't choose to avoid ignorance completely, so it isn't a moral choice....

    But if we had never engaged in moral evil, would we suffer natural evil?

    Maybe natural evil is a condition that arises out of moral evil, but I'm just speculating here......

    BTS

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Earthquakes and hurricanes are part of nature's process, they were around before humans and there is no reason for God to "get rid of them".

    The world is the way it is because it can be no other way.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    The reason we have earthquakes is that we live on a planet that is still cooling.

    In view of that, God could have created man, once the planet had reached a better temperature.

    (LWT pulls BTS' chain and runs...)

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    I really need to get back to work. Will revisit later.

    BTS

  • sir82
    sir82
    Or we misunderstand omnipotence.

    Humans created the word - it means what we say it means. It means "all powerful".

    Either God is truly "all powerful", able to do absolutely anything, or he is not.

    If there are limitations on God, if "omnipotent" doesn't mean "omnipotent", who or what created or defined those limitations?

    Is God really bound by rules of logic he did not himself create?

    If so, whence these rules of logic?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I believe that all of God's creations fall under the very laws of physics he created to keep order in the universe and as such, these laws can't be "manipulated" in a grand scale.

  • sir82
    sir82
    I believe that all of God's creations fall under the very laws of physics he created to keep order in the universe and as such, these laws can't be "manipulated" in a grand scale.

    Well and good, but BTS claims God himself is bound by "rules" of logic.

    Whence these rules of logic that bind God?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Whence these rules of logic that bind God?

    Would you think it wise for God to stop earthquakes if that meant that the life span of the planet would decrease by 100 million years?

    Or would you think it logical for God to eliminate the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs, considering what we know now?

    Or would it be logical for God to ignore that ever action has a reaction?

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