Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater 310 Replies latest jw friends

  • eyeslice

    This incident appears to be a classic illustration of the totally unbending, dogmatic stance taken by the Society and the fact that there is no way that they ever want people to really study the Bible and think for themselves.

    There are many if us here, who as elders (aka the Society's enforcers) could not bring ourselves stand up and say that the Society was always right and that we had the absolute truth.

    What really gets me is that in a few years time they are likely to produce 'new light' on this subject. What happens to the disfellowshipped ones then?

    I remember having a conversation with fellow Witness young men, as we were then, in about 1974 and saying we would be disfellowshipped if we thought that the 1914 generation might well pass away before the end came. How things have changed since then on that topic.

  • wobble

    You are spot on as usual Eyeslice,

    A Christian religion, even if it practised DF'ing, would go back and put right past injustice, even if that injustice occurred from "good" motive at the time, i.e following "present truth" (barf)

    But JW's say , "No they were disloyal at the time, so they deserved their DF,ing" Apart from that being the only evidence you need that they are a cult, it begs the question, how could one, if he ever wanted to, show true repentance in that situation and get back in to the nasty little religion ?

    It is all so crazy, hateful and not at all christlike, does their "Loving God" Jehovah really approve of such behaviour ?

    Big welcome from me too Paulappolos, I hope you post a lot more with us on many subjects,



  • dozy

    Thanks PaulApollos for your honesty & integrity. No doubt it would have been an easier (though painful) option to just keep your head down & stay below the radar. It is a supreme irong that GB members can express and hold views & vote against current JW doctrines while remaining in good standing but they don't offer the same freedom to a rank & file JW.

    Just one query - you describe that you were involved in " confidential work which often included explaining to other witnesses in bethel the meaning of bible verses ". I don't want to pry & feel free to not answer my question , but what exactly did this involve? Is it in translating the English WT publications into other languages , which may involve a degree of interpretation? My understanding is that occasionally some high - up JWs associated with the committees in NY are engaged to do research on specific bible topics but this isn't a regular or general project for fear of the kind of "apostasy" that seems to have developed in this instance.

  • jookbeard

    PP it is amazing you have come on here and exposed this whichunt and well done to you, who are the Top Brass at the London Branch these days? and would CO's such as Michael Purbrick Mike Hogdson Jeff Woodfield and Ashley Khan been involved in the investigation? I know this would have been an extremely traumatic time for you and your mates but it does make me laugh when honest hearted folks like yourselves and others diligently expose the fraud of the WTS, and how they bang on about how different they are then the churches of Christendom when in fact they are far worse. As Besty says it would be great to get more of your group on here.

  • Paulapollos

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    Hi Guys,

    I'm sorry for the delay, and the fact that this will be a long post. I'm really sorry, but I just thought I'd answer as many of your points as I could on one post.

    Just one thing to start this off – I remembered earlier something you all need to know. A rumor was encouraged by certain members of the Branch Committee that the people involved were disfellowshipped for something to do with immorality. Of course, the BC did not say that outright, but encouraged the thought, based on the fact a sister was disfellowshipped some time later. It was a deliberate and convinient smokescreen. But let me make it clear for everyone – the 4 brothers were disfellowshipped for apostasy – that was it, end of. No amount of rumors and mis-representations can change the facts.

    Ok, now I have cleared that up, let me answer your points as I can – I'll do it chronologically.

    Yesidid -

    Actually, I have not read the entirety of Ray's book, though I would like to. However, being a very cheap kind of person, unless I can get it on a free pdf, or other, I don;t think I'm likely to buy it!! Cheap I know!

    Sapphy – regarding the idea of other Bethelites being forbidden to talk – those working in the confidential department, certainly. Others, I'm not sure – I know that, due to the rumors encouraged by the Branch committee, Bethelites tell me there is a great deal of confusion at Bethel about the whole affair. So perhaps that is why? Why do you ask?

    Freeatlast1914 – the wives were amazing. None of them got disfellowshipped, even though they made it clear to the Committees that they believed the same (their husbands had talked to them, and shared the Bible), which just adds to the confusion at Bethel. The wives were even more militant and forthright about it, and the Branch committee was scared to touch them, because they were so popular.

    Aligot Ripounsous – you are so correct to say that my appreciation of the power politics was sharpened at Bethel. I was very innocent to all that, till I went to the den of seething iniquity known as Bethel. What I saw, heard, and experienced there, over the course of my time there, convinced me that Jesus' words about whitewashed graves are nowhere more applicable, especially if you have “authority” in that organisation. I saw too many things, heard too many stories, saw too many people crying, bullied, and oppressed, experienced the utter ignorance of too many people regarding the Bible, to even tell you what a shock it was to my system!

    As for the average JW being ignorant of even their own theology – to be honest, I think the WT has deliberately fostered the uneducated, ignorant, happy-clapping, non-critical-thinking Witnesses, thru the pages of God's Own Journal TM, and sadly, that has led to many Witnesses being unable to even see the implications of what they believe on a certain point, relevant to their canon of other beliefs. Before I was branded an apostate, and was a normal witness, I was shocked at the utter level of ignorance about even what we were “all” supposed to believe, and the lack of thinking of how that fit into all the other things. A real shame.

    Truthexplorer – thanks for your kind words. I know you won't take it as false modesty, but I honestly don't believe it was courage. Yes, we all lost friends and family, but that was the price we all paid. Everyone's situation is so different isn't it? We all know that the average Witness is materialistic and selfish – they are obsessed with going into a Paradise, where they get to pet lions, swim with dolphins, build giant houses, go on yachts around the world, eat the best food, have no war, suffering, and most of all, get to share their prosperity with family and friends, who can spend time congratulating each other on survival and service, so they can feel good about themselves, and pat each other on the back . Let's face it, they are happy with God's Kingdom if it provides all that, and stays up there in heaven, without getting too involved in their personal lives. The fact is, they want a social club, a community where they all praise each other for their integrity, and revel in how they got thru. And that is the fault of the WT. The Wt leaders are selfish. So they appeal to others on the basis of selfishness. And then, later some Witnesses find out certain things – but by now their whole life is utterly tied up in the social club, the community of the present-day Jehovah's Witnesses. If they leave, they lose it all – family, friends, all that in their eyes, makes life worth living. When I think of that – whose fault is it? The Witness, who has been shaped and molded – maybe a bit, yes. Or the Organisation? I know who I blame. That's why I never feel it is courage. I just feel sorry for those trapped, and that''s why I come on this site. To offer my support, so they can have someone to talk to, if they want, and so that they can benefit from my experience.

    I totally and utterly agree with everything you say about the mediator and the partaking of the emblems, as well as the context of the scripture. I'm so so glad your wife was talking to you, and you were able to share it with her. Keep doing that! The two of you together, can prove to be a strong bulwark against the teachings and the control of the organisation. ~And as for you getting more zealous – you won't be able to help it. Trust me, I know. It will just flow out of you. Don't try to stop it – let it flow, because by trying to stop it, you only harm yourself and those around you more. I know you will.

    Besty – I'm afraid the others don't really come on here, or any other site. I am really the only one out of that group that goes in for this sort of thing. Maybe they will in future, but I leave that to them. Sorry about that.

    Quietly leaving – I may know your friend.....

    Eyeslice, Wobble – I agree. Dogmatic, unyielding, and fearful of you using the bible. That summarises the whole organisation. I saw that when I was being hounded!!

    Dozy – I won't go too much into it, simply because of detail, but yes, it involved the Translation Department and the Writing Committee, and yes, it involved researching the meaning of Biblical concepts and verses in context, and how they are translated and explained and handled, and doing all that. To be honest, all such people in these affairs are watched closely, believe me.

    Jookbeard – no Co's were involved in the investigation. It was run by the Branch Committee, and it was a team appointed by them, “experienced Bethel brothers.”

    Esverdad – in terms of the original context, I don't have time now, because I am heading out, but I will post it to you.

  • jookbeard

    keep it coming please PP your experience's are greatly appreciated

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    Paulapollos, you have a PM.

    I would not understimate the effects of the aftermath the other bethelites.

  • free2think

    Paulapollos and Borghater you have pm's :)

  • free2think

    I heard from someone that i recently met and became friends with, that the brothers were df'd for apotasy as well PaulApollos. The person who told me had also just be df'd.

  • cantleave

    Paulappolos, than you for your testimony and answer to the various questions posed here. I am sorry for the way you were treated, but none of it at all surprising, I have seen so much injustice and double standards in the congregation. I served as an elder for a number of years and it woke me up. You said that you don't feel courageous for the stand you have made, I feel like a wimpy coward in comparison. I am hoping to fade without consequence, because I don't want to shunned by my family. I don't have the backbone to do what you did, the closest I have come to that is resigning as an elder. Please continue to post on this board, it's great to hear the opinions of those who have served in the branches.

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