Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater 310 Replies latest jw friends

  • Paulapollos

    Ah, that's what it means!

    Actually, it's normally chips, egg, sausages if you're lucky, beans and bread on a Saturday, and a "roast" on Sunday. Actually, it's quite remarkable, especially since it is accomplised by very few people on the weekend!

    Many bethelites have personal usb sticks for their own private internet connections - who knows what sites they visit?


  • quietlyleaving

    recently I heard that at Bethel they are very conscious of a "movement" to modify disfellowshipping policy. And of course according to them, bethelites that is, this will not happen.

    edit: I don't think there is such a movement but I think they like to call it a movement to explain away why so many people are dissatisfied with their disfellowshipping policies

  • jookbeard

    PP; the Chairman of my J/C was a former Bethel Boy, Jeff Woodfield he had a brother David in there as well, Jeff was a good guy deep down, I now believe he is on the circuit, his brother David's claim to fame was he worked on the service with Wacko Jacko when he visited the UK some time in the early 80's, PP we both could possibly know a lot of the same people

  • sd-7

    This is a very profound discussion, paulapollos. I totally identify with your statements on the average Witness. I don't think Witnesses are intentionally selfish, but really, one elder I knew gave a comment that told it like it is: "Would we really be serving Jehovah if we weren't offered the chance to live forever? Sure, that would be a noble gesture, but..." He indicated that obviously the answer was no. Which undercuts the very core doctrine of 'sovereignty and man's integrity'. Supposedly Satan makes the accusation that we serve God only for what we get from him. But isn't that what we're doing? We're serving him because we want to live forever, right? And obviously, nobody wants to be killed by God, right? So whether because it's by the threat of force, or belief in the paradise, or maybe even genuine love for God, we're still out to save our own skins, like it or not.

    And I certainly recognized even when I was a true believer that Jehovah, the God in the Bible, was ruthless. He ordered grisly deaths for men, women and children, destroyed entire cities, nations all because they were living in the wrong spot. And the assumption I gathered from my own study of WT literature was, "Well, if you disobey us, he'll kill you, too. Just like he did them." I had trouble praying to that God and believing that he cared in the slightest way about me. I always pictured him as he is in the publications, on a throne, unapproachable, immune to the cries of millions and millions of suffering people, interested only in proving a point about his name, no matter the cost to mankind.

    But that's just my opinion. Anyway, I'm sorry you had to go through such an experience. Love for real truth is something that is sadly missing in the organization. It is very true that people are content to let someone else do the thinking and research for them and blindly trust the results. Bible reading is encouraged, but coming to any conclusion that's not in a Watchtower publication is strictly forbidden, no matter what you may read in the scriptures. That alone encourages people to have a veil covering their hearts, as Paul said.

    It's always good to have those who are morally upright who take a stand, like yourself. Unimpeachable testimony for the Bible's truth is a real treasure. I hope the Lord Jesus will be with you in these tough times.


  • Paulapollos

    Thank you SD 7, your words are very kind.

    Jookbeard, we probably do know people in common.

    quietlyleaving, if it was mentioned at bethel, that means people are writing letters of complaint or inquiry to the service department - and if it was peter ellis or stephen hardy who mentioned it, well, let us say that the Big Guns were being wheeled out to squash any dissent

    Peter Ellis once gave a morning worship where he asked why on earth people danced to music at weddings - and he was not joking. I remember it distinctly.

    He and Mr Hardy also gave a little presentation where they explained that the GB member David Splane, explained that the way the Governing Body come to "new light" is not by revelation o fholy spirit, but only thru Bible study and research, and that none of the members of the GB have more holy spirit than any member of the annointed or the other sheep.

    Yes, they said that to the whole Bethel family at Morning Worship. I kid you not.


  • Chalam

    Hello PP,

    Great posts, keep 'em coming :)

    The god the WT have created is at best a mute idol and most likely quite worse, look at the trail of destruction the WT leaves in its wake.

    Romans 3:22-25 (New International Version)

    22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.

    Do JWs receive the sin atonement through faith in Jesus blood or by "taking in knowledge"?

    Who is demonstrating that faith at each "memorial"?

    By the way, why call it a "memorial"? Do they prefer a dead Jesus?

    Agreed, no-one loves God. Loving God does not come from the flesh, the flesh cannot love God, its des enmity with God John 3:5-7 John 6:63 Philippians 3:3

    This verse is key.

    1 John 4:7 (New International Version)

    7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

    No-one can love God but His kids. Whoever is not a child of God does not love God. You have seen that clearly in the JWs. Furthermore, neither can they know God.

    John 14:23 (New International Version)

    23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

    Only those that love Jesus and obey His teaching are loved by the Father. How many JWs love Jesus?



  • aligot ripounsous
    aligot ripounsous

    is Mel Parkin still alive? and does he reside at The London Branch?

    I knew him as a CO in Chelsea around 1978 or 79, he was already all white, looking about 60 of age. Would then be more than 90 by now. I've been told by an English elder that the branch has built special homes for their old faithful servants.

    btw, and off topic, I had a look at Chelsea cong accounts for 2009. The hall is quite small so it must not be a big congregation, unless they merged, say maybe with Fulham (couldn't find the accounting report for the latter) but anyway, they have garnered some £ 62 000 in 2009 and their expenses were less than £ 20 000. Makes a hefty surplus of £ 42 000 !! what on earth have they done with all that money in excess, has the whole of it been funnelled to the branch ?

  • believingxjw


    You first wrote: "We all know that the average Witness is materialistic and selfish – they are obsessed with going into a Paradise, where they get to pet lions, swim with dolphins, build giant houses..."

    You later wrote: "I am very very selfish, inherently. I happen to think we all are, when it comes to the crunch. And my personal belief is that Romans 3 applies to religious people, as Paul intended it to - we are serving God, but because of rewards, stability, security - and I think that applies to JW's too."

    I suppose, then, to consider the average Witness selfish and materialistic is not actually a singular fault on their part since you "happen to think we all are," but rather it is a human fault. As for hope in a is, as you know, also quite common to all of us. We all hope for some reward for our work whether that reward is monetary or emotional or moral; reward is just. Sure there are those who are liars and the most base of people within the Witness religion but that can also be said of all peoples in all religions and all cultures.

    As for thinking they are the best religion that too is not all that unusual for a religion. Most do. Most Americans believe their country is the best. In fact, I heard a political debate recently where the participants claimed that Texas, their state, was absolutely the best state in the Union! Believing we are special is not just a Witness failing.

    The Witnesses most certainly have faults, big ones, but none that are not common to all men.

    I hope all the best for you and your family.


  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Sarah, I think your point is valid and that it goes along with what paulapollos was saying. The JWs are no better than anyone else, though they claim to be so very different and superior to "the world."

    "The way of 'the truth' is the best way of living," and all that crap. It isn't. They're driven by the same things everyone else is: self interest.

  • quietlyleaving

    I had to make friends with my inherent "selfishness" in order to continue to live life with joy. Many philosophers have taken another look at "selfisness" and reinterpret this very strong characteristic of all life as "desire" as in a desire to make connections to form networks etc (of course this would include the often painful process of dissolving/redefining/expanding or diminshing old networks and connections). My own small knowlege of human nature, science and biology seems to verify this.

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