The Only Real "Take" You Can Have on the Date of Jerusalems Destruction

by AllTimeJeff 112 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AllTimeJeff

    I have a new take on the 587/586 "controversy". This is of course, speaking for me over 3 years after I left. I realize that if you are first leaving, this is a big deal. So please know as you read this, if you are lurking or are newly out, I would never complain about the continued discussion of when Jerusalem was destroyed, as EVERYthing JW's believe is tied to 1914 and their fictional story of when Jerusalem was destroyed.

    Sometimes though, people on this board start comical threads trying to figure when Jerusalem was destroyed. Ridiculous, one and all.

    Now that I am out, I have to ask... (apologies in advance for the CAPS)


    Seriously, lets look at what is implied by the lying bullshit idiotic reasoning from the GB that somehow, all the "worldly scholars" have conspired to lie about when Jerusalem was destroyed to hide the truth from all but 7,000,000 people who hope to survive Armageddon because these scholars want to do the high bidding of Satan.

    Oh, I am sorry, they are blinded by Satan. Riiiiiiight.

    So what the GB hopes to do, bottom line, is to convince you that 7 billion people, including ALL scholars who ever study this shit have it totally wrong. And the only reason the GB has it right is because WWI started in 1914, a date that they have since hijacked beyond all reason.

    Sorry for the rant. I don't want to argue with psuedo-Scholar or Lars or any JW who wants to try and bullshit that 607 is a real date. It is simple. You can learn the date from middle school. Stop it. It isn't a debate. The debate only matters to JW's as they try to fool people.

    It's not a debate. Really. Honest.

    I encourage all lurking JW's to really learn about this. It is important.

    To any apologists, stop acting like you know better then people who have better then your typical 10th grade education. Really, get a life.

  • Out at Last!
    Out at Last!

    ATJ, although I usually enjoy your posts, I think it is time for your meds. While you have been on here for several years and have had time to think/ read about this many times, other newer ones may be reading about these things for the first time. I was in for 28 years and many of the threads contain things that I had never read about until reading COC. Please be patient with us newer ones, it may be more of the same for you, but may be mind blowing for some of the newbies.

    That being said, I do appreciate your posts, your candor with the elder you were and the man you have become. Please keep it up.

  • AllTimeJeff

    Out at last (and anyone who agrees with you)

    My sincere apologies to you.

    When I read Jerusalem date posts, and I continue to see the GB try to bend history, it occurs to me how cynical it all is.

    As I stated, please discuss this as much as you want. What I wrote above was a rant on JW's and the occasional apologists who try to come across as more learned then everyone else.

    It IS important to talk about, and I apologize for coming across a bit heavy. I was not aiming my opinion at you in the manner you took it. (and that's all I have to offer anyway, opinions)

    The last thing I want is to make it sound like the discussion itself shouldn't happen. If it weren't for learning the truth about how the GB lied concerning Jerusalems destruction, I might have stuck around that sickness a little longer.

    So I apologize for coming across as I did. It was more a rant about how silly it is for the GB to even question everyone else. It's silly. I wish I saw it 20 years earlier....

  • TD

    LOL. I understand your point Jeff. There's something very Quixotic in the JW conviction that they know better than those who have spent their entire lives on this subject.

    Besides ANE archaeology I feel much the same way on several other subjects.

    1. Transfusion Medicine.

    --An unbelievably complex subject, yet there are few JW's that aren't convinced that their leaders and writers know better than most of the medical community.

    2. Organic Evolution.

    JW's (And other fundamentalist Christian groups as well) know even less about biology than they do about medicine. The situation is so bad that it's almost impossible to even hold a conversation with a JW on the subject. They don't even understand the most basic terms. Yet they are supremely confident that all those smart-alecks who have devoted their entire lives to the subject are wrong.

    3. Judaism.

    Why JW's think they would know more about Jewish law than those who have lived and breathed it every waking moment of the lives, I don't know. But they do for some inexplicable reason.

  • AllTimeJeff

    Hmmm, I think I found the offending statement... Probably could have said this better... Hope you don't mind me explaining it...

    Sometimes though, people on this board start comical threads trying to figure when Jerusalem was destroyed. Ridiculous, one and all.

    I should have said instead of people, JW apologists. Very sorry about that. Thats totally my fault.

    I enjoy it when a freshly exited JW learns the truth, and how they see Oz for who he is.

    The threads I refer to have attempts not to learn, but to justify the lying and dishonest position of the GB. (Seriously, who questions the entire scholastic field and is taken seriously?)

    Anyway, sometimes I don't edit my posts as well as I would like. Sorry again... Hope that helps to understand what I meant.

  • dissed


    I've been out 13 years, have learned much from this site, but still can see the WT Inc spin on 1914. (really 607)

    Many scholars have been wrong in the past. After reading 'The Bible as History' by Werner Kemplarer(?), I realized these guys don't always have it right.

    Look at the Global warming stuff (which I believe it is getting warmer) Many scientists have falsified data to support their viewpoint. Not necessary, but they did.

    Not in a mood to debate after 4 glasses of Champagne. But there are other opinions to respect, no?

    In the mean time, Happy New Year!

  • AllTimeJeff

    Happy new year dissed. Enjoy your champagne!

  • miseryloveselders

    Hey Jeff, I appreciate your posts, especially speaking as someone from the perspective of being still totally in, and not a chance of fading or stopping whatsoever. You, On The Way Out, Undercover and a couple others helped me put some things in perspective.

    As far as this topic is concerned, wanted to say , IMPO , too much time is invested in 586/587 vs 606/607. Even 1914, I believe too much is focused on. The only publication of a former JW that I purchased was The Gentile Times Considered, and it's not a bad book at all. He makes solid points, as does others such as Leolia, Larsinger, and even Scholar. However, lets just say 1914 was correct. Lets just assume that. At the end of the day, so what? The JW religion as it is now, is completely different from what the "Bible Students" were "then." To make the argument that Christ a few years after WW1, made an inspection invisibly, and selected not the Bible Students, but what "a segment" of the Bible Students, that would become a chosen religion doesnt add up to me. Put it this way, ...... add a little Isaiah here, a little Daniel there, a dash of Mathew/Luke, a parable here, a Revelation there, and some finger pointing at other faiths for spice, and then call the end product, the "True Religion" is a stretch. Especially considering the Bible Students were participators in what they call Babylon the Great for some 30-50 years after the invisible inspection.

    Winston Churchill another poster who I've enjoyed reading from in the past, made the point, why can't people just say, "I don't know?" I don't waste my time on dates and trying to figure out when some end time is coming based on prophecies that were written centuries ago. Jesus stated to, "keep on the watch", but he didnt say hold your breath while keeping on the watch. The reason why, you'd suffocate, or you would allow other imperfect men to strangle you with their noose rope made up of "current" interpretations, and organizational "policies". The Bible has "principles", not "policies." There was a "Law", but that's been done away with, and replaced with a Ransom. The principles found in that law stand the test of time.

    At the end of the day Jeff, I say, as far as 586/587 vs 606/ what. Do what Christ commanded you to do is what I say. The key part of that, is what Christ told you to do and the example he set. Not some group of men who decided to speak on behalf of an Entity they dont seem to really have a firm grasp of a relationship with. They have more of a relationship with their organization and It's interests, than they do with God and his Son.

  • OnTheWayOut

    And the only reason the GB has it right is because WWI started in 1914, a date that they have since hijacked beyond all reason.

    That's what the JW's are all about. Number one thing is that they have to be right. Their whole house of cards rests on the fact that World War One started in 1914 and proved that they were right.

    They even give a reason why the "worldly" scholars choose the wrong dates. They start from the assumption that the Bible is wrong. We know that isn't true, but JW's have their reason.

  • thetrueone

    Very good point Jeff

    The year stated by the WTS. of Jerusalem's destruction ( 607 BC ) was a non-academic extraction

    to help bring some monumental importance to 1914, it worked for them since the majority of the population

    wasn't knowledgeable about this subject, it also was to bring some sort of support toward Russell's pyramidology theories

    concerning the end of the Gentile times.

    The existence of at least one of the JWS with a PHD. in theology is mute suggestion.

    If anyone is interested of really knowing about the beginning of Christianity and its starting formation,

    I highly recommend a DVD entitled " From Jesus to Christ : The first Christians "'

    its very informative and it is narrated and put together by REAL noted professors of theology from

    Oxford and Cambridge universities.

    By the way they also discovered archaeological evidence of the cross ( crucifix )

    as the way the romans used to kill people. Not as a mere single stake as the JWS insist on.

    Another interesting thing they revealed was that in ancient Israel they were actually two working kingdoms

    a kingdom of the North and a kingdom of the South........does that ring a bell ?

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