Farewell to all

by Amazing 99 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Julie

  Hi Kismet old friend,

  Hope all is well with you in your part of the world.

  It saddens me to know you feel my posts regarding this whole exchange are designed as strictly personal attacks on Amazing. My intent actually was to highlight the truth of the content of his posts subsequent to the collective rebuttal from Amensian. I thought she had pretty much eliminated much of the personal exchanges that had taken place in the threads she was rebutting but did include some personal comments/views in her rebuttal/post/thread.

  She included quotes and gave in-depth commentary rebutting/addressing all quotes she included. I thought her post was quite worthy of serious reply, there is no denying it was certainly worth series merit.

  The reason I have been so vocal about Amazing's behavior since then is this: There are a lot of people here who hold Amazing in high regard, value his opinion and think him a respectable fellow. There is a responsibility Amazing has because of this. He has worked hard to gain the influence he has and so he should be fully aware of the weight this influence carries. His behavior has been anything but honorable and respectable. It has been self-serving, cowardly and anything but honorable. All through my participation in this discussion I have listed particular words from him that I base this view on. I won't be listing them again here.

  Think of this. One poster in the elder culpability discussion said that if even one of these men (elders)she had held in such high esteem stood up one day and said "this is hogwash" she too would have walked out, having had her suspicions confirmed by a man she regarded highly. Do you see how the actions of one man held in high regard can have influence over people? I think Amazing has not met his responsibility to those who hold him in high esteem and I think it very selfish and poor of him to set such an example/put in such a performance for them. He has abused the privlege of his position and I hope those who do admire him deeply realize this.

  I am not being spiteful but will admit to being right there to highlight the self-serving, less than respectable methods that have been employed. Frankly I think it an injustice to all those who think so highly of him and it is they who he should apologize first and foremost.

  I address you publicly because I have also had a similar inquiry via e-mail. Thought I make it known to all in case there were any other curious souls out there. Of course this doesn't mean Kismet that I am notinterested in "catching up" with you. Will do so soon.

  One final note, if Amazing did come back and put in a more respectable, forthright showing on this whole matter I would be the first to commend him for it. Just an FYI.

  Waremst Regards,
  Julie, who is the same person you knew on h2o but doesn't hold emotions in check when that old nemisis (narcissism and/or its characteristics) rears it's ugly head

  P.S. Belatedly, you said: "she started using terms like you, all you elders, everyone who served as an elder is guilty, when you went up on the platform puffing your chest.." I never said such, I don't use such terms, I was never a JW, remember?
• 

  Kismet

  Julie:

  thanks for your reply and I look forward to the email exchange.

  Just a clarifying point on your PS...those were words Amnesian used in the second post, not you.

  Talk to you soon.

  Kismet
• 

  teejay

  Ginny,

  You are welcome to see a commonality between the "culpability of elders" debate and the "riz vs. Jan H" thread I took part in months ago. If you see some of the very same issues being discussed, that's fine. Frankly, I don't. I'm also sorry that you don't share my view (one of vain admiration) of either my boxing analogy or my very poetic and cutting "EPILOG." In both, I included a bit of exaggeration perhaps, but not much.

  You are free to like/dislike whatever you wish. People are different and enjoy different tastes – that's to be expected and tolerated. Yet I am quite amused that you see in the boxing analogy a "bias akin to propaganda." You can be very funny sometimes, although I doubt that was your intent. It seems that you are deadly serious, and that makes this opinion of yours all the more outrageous!

  Like you, I am primarily interested in issues but I'm also drawn to certain personalities, as personalities play a part in every discussion. The personal equation cannot be totally removed owing to the fact that people discuss issues and our unique personalities tend to show in our presentations. That explains the immense popularity of JT, unclebruce, AlanF, even yourself, as well as others. People enjoy posters who present truths with their own particular flavor and naturally gravitate toward their personal favorites. I am no different. I have my preferences, while still having an overriding respect for truth.

  I am sorry that you are annoyed with my perception that you missed the point of the AMNESIAN/Amazing discussion, but that seemed to be the case. While it's true that you made no mention of "wills, intellect, winners or losers," you did say that you were interested in issues as if that made you radically different from everyone else involved in the discussion. By bringing up what you did, it simply seemed to me that you had missed THE important component of the dialog. I only hoped to clear up your confusion, if that's what it was.

  You said:

  You assure me once again that "nothing could be further from reality" than an Amazing/Amnesian connotation, yet you use Amnesian and Amazing figuratively to represent two sides of an argument, presuming that posts by others were intended to show support/agreement for one side of the argument or the other. (I hope you did not include me in these "others." I clearly stated that I was looking for the truth between the poles.) Your analogy fosters black-and-white thinking and says that "Amazing's" arguments are weak, whining, and cowardly.

  Which is it, Teejay? Is Julie right? "?

  First, if I said outright that Amazing's arguments were weak, I am now making a retraction. I don't think I ever said (or even hinted at) such a thing. Amazing had valid points and I DO recall admitting as much. (If you need the quote, I will find it for you.) All I've ever said or inferred was that in my opinion AMNESIAN's argument much more closely reflected my experience as a longtime active member of the WTS and therefore, imo, was the truer of the two.

  As far as whether or not his arguments (or he himself) were "whining and cowardly," I think the record of his behavior speaks for itself. On one of the half-dozen or so threads he authored since the start of this dialog, he posted to the effect that "here I am, still waiting on AMNESIAN and Tina and still no answer" or some stupidity like that, as if he were a pre-teen, standing in his front yard, bat and ball in hand, and no one would come out to play with him. If you thought his sorry, little display was worthy of respect, help yourself. I'd call it whining, but that's me.

  It came as a bit of a shock when he announced his departure from the board. "Is Julie right in calling him a coward?" you ask. Well, Ginny has her own unique take on events here, so I won't rule out the possibility that YOU see the man's behavior in any other context but I'm thinking you are quite by your lonesome in that regard. It is virtually impossible to read his behavior as anything other than cowardice.

  He's here and posting, starting his fair share of threads weekly, as long as praise is heaped on him. When the heat is turned on just a little... when someone offers a dynamic challenge to one of his positions... he claims "I'm the only one interested in a debate of issues so I'm leaving" yadda, yadda. Is he THAT weak? I wouldn't know... I don't know much about the man other than what I've been able to gather from his posts, but his actions over the past week to ten days do not speak of his character in glowing terms, if I say so myself.

  Answering your above quote bluntly, NO, this has not turned personal although Amazing has attempted to play up that angle for all its worth.

  YES, I am more interested in issues. That has always been the case since I got here -- not personalities, not who is a "luminary" as JanH called a certain clique in the riz/JanH thread. I couldn't care less about who said it – the supposed 'status,' of certain posters. While that may now presently be a hot topic here, it's been my (and Bigboi's and DannyBear's) calling card since Day One. I don't give a shit about personalities when it comes to who's telling the truth.

  And NO, I'm not interested in "toppling Amazing from what Julie perceives as a pedestal of high esteem and exposing his sad, self-pity." If I *did* have that on my List of Things to Do, I'd have to hurry and get busy, seeings how the man is so far ahead of me in undoing his own reputation! Based on what I've seen so far, he's handled that just fine all by himself.

  At the same time, I'm not kissing his ass and telling him he's right if I think he's wrong and I'm shedding no tears as he plays his wretched "whoa is me" violin. As in the case of JanH, AlanF, Farkel, Kent, et al, I ain't skeered of none of them muthafuckas, the so-called "luminaries", "Brain Trust", Better Poster... whatever you wanna call 'em. Just because someone has an Online Reputation (whatever the hell THAT is) doesn't mean that I will sit by and allow them to pass along misinformation unchallenged simply because of said reputation.

  Done played that game long enough in my sad, pathetic little life, so while I have voice, from here on out I'm gone use it. If there are those who don't like it, they can put their dislike with fifty cents and buy a cup of coffee.
• 

  Tina

  Hi Julie,
  I'm amazed(no pun intended) to see the skewed thinking regarding amazings reaction to amnesians post.
  An obviously touchy subject here. And why it doesnt get addressed as much as it should,because it touched on a very real painful reality regarding elders and culpability.
  Rather than taking it to the personal name calling level that amazing did,it would have been better to see some rigorous yet painful honesty ,rather than mediocre defensive tactics that clouded the issue at hand.

  One only needs to re-read that thread and see exactly who brought the personal into it. I was screeched at,called a liar. And I knew that was bullshit,merely an angry reaction to the issue,as there is now way he could support that insult. And then we had the threat of butt kicking daughter appearing(never did) And then comes the biased ex-wife appearing. I was waiting for Uncle Joe next lol. So we see who took it down to the level it went too.

  Being unable to refute the points made by Amnesian,we saw the the huffy ego ridden leaving post.
  I also see blame going on. Anybody who leaves,it's solely their decision. No one elses.

  Bottom line was lack of honesty,inability to concede honestly to the actions of a subgroup of men with the group. Another fact is that whatever ego saving tactic,it does not change the reality of what many of us went thru,both men and women in our dealings w/ this group of men while in the WTS.

  Sad to see that the mindset wasn't left at the kh door upon leaving. Often times it takes public mention to create awareness of probs,issues,or lingering mindsets. We've all taken out thumps here. No one is any different,special on this. That includes those who held authoritarian positions. And the fact they brought that mindset with them here.
  T.
• 

  Kismet

  While not getting into the whole argument again, I think the board is learning as much about those that are continuing to beat the proverbial dead horse as they have about the 'dead horse.'

  Kismet
• 

  Tina

  Hi Kis,
  Thanks for the snide comment.If you notice that was my first post in this thread,so dont tell me Im beating this issue.
  When in the WTS we had no voice,we have it now. And if you dont like it,dont read it. Actually your snide remark says more about you than anything I wrote,you ex elders do love to try to shut up people.
  Something you should have left at the KH door.Work on it.
  It must irk you to no end that you dont have moderator tools like ya do on h20. Tuff shit.
  Oh and before you put down the 'voice' comment.See randys latest post here,kinda ties in.Let me see you take issue with that.Or is it just women you do that with.
• 

  Kismet

  Tina:

  This is a new year you really must come up with new material. yawn.

  As far as things I need to work on? Yeah there are many. However as far as such issues you raised (that seem to be more of an issue for you than myself btw -seeing how you continue to bring them up over and over) should I need advice, I think I prefer to get advice from a real professional who actually speaks to their clients.... Not some online therapist wannabe. Maybe one day you will be one. Keep working on it.

  And just as an FYI, the purpose of my post was to help someone who I think is likely being very hurt by the continued barrage against them.

  Freedom of speech is wonderful except when it is used to further abuse and intentionally hurt someone. One of your apparent favourite uses of your freedom.

  Kismet - who thinks he'll return to the 'just ignore Tina' mode now
• 

  Tina

  Yeah Kis,and your material is stale. DOuble patriarchal yawn for ya. Im not an on-line therapst wannabe,but think what you like. And any reasonable reader here can see thats not what Im doing. What I see are the same behaviors by him as others have. Like it or not,there are serious gender issues re;WTS. You want to sweep that under the rug,well go ahead.
  Dont expect others too. I was called liar a few times w/ nothing to back that up. This isnt the kh,were only nicey nice responses are allowed. I speak the truth of what I see.I speak the truth,especially painful ones like this. Since this truism offends your sensibilities by all means,seek pro help as you miss the issue at hand
  His behavior got called on,and whats wrong with that? happens all the time here.

  As per usual when cogent points are brought,and you can't respond objectively,here come the insults. Expected from someone like you who shares the similar mindset of yer pals.

  I understand your MO,you cant delete or moderate issues that you are uncomfortable with. Frustrating when ya cant shut me up. lol face it this sint a kh and you are powerless to silence voices,evern obvious ones that dont hold to the status quo.

  I agree! Please get some pro help,might broaden and expand on the limited worldview you display.

  You obviously didnt read randys post-voices are for all.Theraputic issues never came up except in your head to try to discredit me, and my points. Nobody needs professional sanctions to speak their mind. Something else you need to learn. Like it or not doll,I have credentials. I do not and have stated repeatedly I dont do that here. But thats you just trying to sucker punch)again)

  I dont play therapist here unlike you who play censorious elder behavior. Work on yer elder attitude,who knows someday you just might get rid of it.
  And no,I dont see any abuse happening. Again another statement to deflect from the pertinent issues. Like I said his behavior become reprenensible by the insults he slung. Ignore if you like, thats your option,but when I see you spouting nonsense and insults at me,you will get a response.Again that's how it works here dear.

  Why dont you stay around your board where you can censor and play therapist that Ive seen,your uneducated advice comes too close to playing therapist there. After you get some pro help, get some mh training Like I have. You might just be effective at times.

  Tina who isnt shutting up for any elderhead ego and his shitty insults lol
• 

  Kismet

  Nice edits.

  Glad to see you left in your usual insults tho. ooops yeah thats right silly me, insulting people... that is supposed to be my MO according to you. LOL

  For those who share your apparent inablity to read what was posted, I simply questioned the reason for continuing to kick (insult) Amazing. The point has been made over and over. There must be something about someone who continues to beat someone even after they have left....

  As far as my getting an education like yours? I think I'll pass. I would hope my education would make me a better person. It seems likes yours has simply made you bitter but with a better 'professional' vocabulary (though you might want to keep working on that too).

  There is not one person here at Simon's who has more of a reputation for gutter-like language, hurling insults and venomous posts than you. Tho I must congratulate you for having one whole post written with ahem 'passion' where you didn't need to resort to using your favorite four letter word.

  And now look who is trying to censor who? Telling me to go back to H20..what??I don't have the freedom to speak here? Ohh it is only Tina that is allowed such freedom...I understand now. sheeeesh But I doubt if you can see the hypocrisy in that statement of yours.

  If you are an example of what higher (mh) education does I think I will look elsewhere for my education. Perhaps in your strides to become an actual therapist you should visit one more often.

  Obviously we both have issues to work on.

  Kismet
• 

  sf

  Hahaha Tina. [8>]

  sKally