The guy that claimed he was going to bring down the WTBTS

by Scarred for life 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    CT

    It is my intention to bring the best of my thoughts to the fore on this, and I appreciate very much the sentiments you have expressed. However, in your latest response, I note a slight change in tone from your original question: It seemed to me that you went from whether or not it is possible to whether it should be done. In other words:

    Does the WTBTS merit complete abandonement and destruction due to its lies, hypocrisies, etc? Of course.

    Is it possible?

    It appears to me that your arguments for whether or not the WTBTS is culpable and merits being put down are worthy and correct:

    But if I read you correctly, you are going after the government sanctioned religious corporation. Lets focus on the United States corps. Europe has in times past banned JW's, so I will allow that it is possible for those corps to be disbanded. It should also be noted that, if it were to happen again, the unintended consequence would be a "stouting up" of the believers. In short, JW's would still be around, and when circumstances would change, (they always do) then they would form again.

    To speak directly to your preferred method of breaking up the WTBTS

    That would leave #2 Government, regulations and negative public opinion.

    Again, I have to ask, when has the United States government ever shut down a religion with a 50 state presence, corporations over 100 years old, tradition, (yes, even though JW's are a punch line, you can't be the butt of joke unless you are somewhat on the radar)?

    The fact is, of all the fringe groups and cults in existence, the WTBTS is the most bulletproof in the United States. They were the ones whom the government tried to ban in the 1940's. Supreme Court decisions have affirmed their right to exist. Other cults in their shadow may exist, but I would opine that Jehovah's Witnesses are the first American cult to succesfully argue for their legal existence.

    Thus, I would have to disagree with government and regulation as a way to bring them down.

    As far as negative public opinion, don't they already have it? Where does anyone speak well of JW's? Sure, they are "nice". We talk of JW's at work, and we read in the pages of newspapers how "happy" everyone is at the DC's. Ok.

    It is also well known that they don't allow blood transfusions. Bad pub. What does it mean?

    JW's, like Mormons and Scientologists are cults. They are also very sophistacated PR machines. They are aware of their weirdness, which makes them insidious, but also relatively bulletproof. It's the cults that really believe in their bullshit that are going down. Remember the Branch Dividians?

    The GB, far from being insistent in their integrity, have done everything to survive, and if that means change to the extent they can, they will. From Rutherfords offer to take out offensive passages of the 7th volume of Studies in the Scriptures, they have compromised where they needed to ensure their existence. Rest assurred, that will continue.

    The fact is, we have a moral responsibility as former JW's to point out what this cult is all about. To the extent that information becomes more easily available, the further down towards irrelevance the WTBTS will become.

    Because at best, I think that is where the aim should be at the moment. In the lack of immenent doom, irrelevance is what we need to aim for. The GB is already planning for this. They know their last bastion of wealth is their Brooklyn properties. They are marginalizing themselves. They need a certain amount of $$ to run the operation, and they are planning on diminishing returns. They aren't planning on growth, and they aren't planning on things staying the same.

    I would say, as Besty has trademarked, this is an endtime cult without an endtime. They are fleshing out the next part of their existence, and I have a strong feeling that in 20 years, we won't recognize what they have become. They are shedding dates, and their ridiculous "prophecies" with types and antitypes. They have to do this.

    They will evolve. Their key scripture is, to paraphrase, 'The light gets brighter'. Their light of course, is nothing more then a flashlight, their journey stops from time to time to reload the batteries. Like any flashlight, it only illuminates in dark places what is directly in front of their nose. Thus, they will continue to stumble in the dark, eventually, they will run out of batterires, and/or air.

    And because they are in the dark, off the radar, known only when they knock on doors, no one will notice when that happens. You can't kill something that is already dead.

    Some movements die a violent death, and the rest, natural causes. JW's will die of natural causes. They have a rather large parasite problem, of which, I count myself happy to be among the parasites causing their pain and problems... :)

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Rebel8, I just read your treatment of this question, and it intrigues me. In all seriousness, who has this worked on? I ask, because I am truly ignorant of these tactics working where religions are involved.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Sorry, one more thing, as I look forward to some responses: If as you say Rebel8, this education program can't be about JW's, it would have to be about ALL cults.

    From a marketing prespective, to single out one cult marginalizes you. Even if it is the cult we know best, it would be a better strategy to go after all of them in an education/PR campaign.

    As an unintended consequence, you chould be harpooning Mitt Romney's chances at being President... So be careful. lol

  • yknot
    yknot

    Just stating for the record......

    I miss him

    If he is still toiling away at a plan to awaken those he loves locally I hope it goes over well.

  • shamus100
  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Where did you get that picture of me Shamus? I want my modelling royalties.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Jeff, you're right, it would have to be about all cults. To make it about one cult would be a problematic strategy for a number of reasons--it limits interest in and support of the topic by the public/decision-makers, and it makes you look like you have a personal (slanted) agenda vs. a valid POV.

    Who has it worked on....the tobacco industry. Another billion-dollar multi-national group of racketeers proven to lie, incentivize their authority figures to lie, intimidate those who refuse to lie or try to expose the truth.........I see multiple comparisons with wts.

    A religion would be more challenging for some reasons and less challenging for others. Tobacco industry--they have physical addictive nature of nicotine on their side, as well as a lot more ca$h. They also have the same First Amendment working in their favor, though it appears the government won't allow that to stop them. They have product liability--a stronger issue than wts has.

    Anyhoo. It could be done if these proven techniques were used. IMHO. And my "opinon" is based upon the evidence available.

    Anyway, this is all just a theoretical discussion we're having. Ex-jws don't want to do any of these things, in my experience.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Rebel8, I agree in theory, but there is one substantial difference between tobacco and JW's, or religio cults in general: Since the 1950's, it has been well established from medical authorities and doctors that tobacco claims about cigarettes were first "healthy", then "safe", then somehow "good for you", were patent lies and that in fact, cigarettes were poisonous and harmful. The only reason that tobacco exists today is a de facto grandfathering in of their industry and addicts.

    And I would point out that in spite of the lawsuits won and payouts and admissioins, cigarettes and big tobacco are still around. Pragmatic bunch, big tobacco is.

    I apologize for throwing water on your fire. I think you are correct about ex JW's, and speaking for myself, I consider it a personal victory to have come as far as I have. I don't have a desire to spend my life leaving the cult again and again, reliving the experience. I know that is a challenge for all of us in some form....

    Your points though do cause me to pause. I feel an obligation to do something, but the pragmatic part of me says that the puzzle pieces to make what you say work are not in place.

    Btw, I appreciate the theoretical discussion. I think the idea needs to be brainstormed futher. If ex JW's don't want to sign up, the first thing to learn is what will galvanize them, what can be done, and then use the tactics that you have described. I don't think it hopeless, I think it is in flux...

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Really? I feel no personal obligation to spend my time cultbusting. At one time I had a desire to do so, but that's long gone. We only get 1 life and we've already wasted a lot of it on being zombies.

    I did spend a bit of time working to prevent people from joining and assisting those who requested help exiting. It's tiring. I did a bit more to reduce the size of wts than I did helping it grow, back in the day. But as I said, my desire to spend my time doing so is gone.

    But...I do believe it could be done, using these techniques, modified as appropriate, because it has been done with a very similar group. Just because it's a little different doesn't mean the entire wheel needs to be reinvented.

    Since the 1800's, it has been well established from many authorities wts claims about *everything* were patent lies and that in fact, prophecies failed repeatedly, obvious lying about science exposed, etc. The only reason that wts exists today is a de facto grandfathering in of the born-ins and its continued practice to prey upon the vulnerable (illiterate, poor, mentally ill, etc.)--just like the tobacco industry.

    Fixed that for ya.

  • AllTimeJeff

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