Am i correct?

by angel eyes 121 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    My apologies - I didn't read the entire thread; so many pages and my computer isn't loading 'em very fast tonight. SO, someone may have already posted what I am about to:

    I understand what you're trying to ask: whether those who are "born" in are somehow perceived as "better" than those who convert in. And I would say to you, as someone who came in from the world, and who has a best friend who was "born" in... and who knows a great many in and out that fall under both, your perception is not off.

    Here's the thing: like ANY organization that touts its members as "family" those who are "born" into the WTBTS are very often perceived as being... well, "in"... although not baptized... heck, sometimes not even having made a committment... simply by reason of their birth. As such, they are very often already considered "righteous"... by virtue of birth.... without really having the prove it. In contrast, those who come "out" of the world DO have to prove it... and much quicker. Think of it like the black sheep brother who's always in trouble... but "he's family"... vs. the pretty decent son-in-law who has to always prove that he's "worthy" (although he's most probably the best thing that could've ever happened to the daughter. And this works vice versa, black sheep daughter/decent daughter-in-law). Comes down to blood ibeing "thicker" and all that.

    Then there's the whole "how long have YOU been in the 'trooth'" thing. For example, you might have "Timmy" who is, say, 23 years old... and so, has "been in" (in a manner of speaking) for 23 years. Sure, he gets ome pressure from Mom/Dad and "the bruthers" to "get baptized." But he's learned how to "handle" these folks, so they don't actually come at him now as they would, say, "Jimmy," who is also 23... but just started studying. In this case, the pressure, indeed the RUSH to get Jimmy baptized is almost unbelievable.

    And there is a very LOGICAL explanation for this: Timmy has been "counted"... as a unbaptized publisher... for, what, 17 years now (I'm going from, say, age 5, when he can, okay, knock on a door). But Jimmy, for only a few months. Now think of the KUDOS... to the publisher studying with Jimmy... the Book Study Conductor who "shepherds" that publisher... and the congregation... that ultimately "LANDS" dear Jimmy! ALL of these can say THEY... "brought in a new sheep." ANOTHER number (to add to the already peculiarly large number of a group that's supposed to be... ummmm... small? And they're not worried about Timmy - sure, he may never get baptized, but he'll keep coming, at least for the Memorial... which is the count that, well, counts, anyway).

    And finally, there's the fear... that dear Jimmy might WAKE UP... and see the LIGHT and GET OUT OF HER... BEFORE he commits! Because if they "lose" him before he commits... they (1) will never be able to "count" him as a BAPTIZED publisher... which is the first goal, and (2) will never gain full control over him... which is the second, but most important goal. If they can get him to commit... then they know they most probably will be able to retain SOME kind of "control" over him... for the rest of his life... even if that control is nothing more than fear (indeed, many here are still proving that part true).

    You're not crazy, dear one: with very few exceptions, what you "See" in this regard... is absolutely true. But, may I ask you: if you SEE that... why inthe WORLD are you still TOUCHING that "unclean" thing?

    Things that make you go "hmmm...."

    I bid you peace.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • fokyc
    fokyc

    Angel Eyes,

    It is you and YES it is NOT true; those born into 'the truth' have a very strange protected view on almost everything. They are not 'street wise' in many things.

    Those born into the truth are often very judgemental and are sure they are right if there is any difference of opinion; even though the JW literature AND the Elders official book warn them about having opinions.

    I was not 'born in', I was dragged in 'kicking and screaming'. IT is NOT 'the truth' and the JW's have no right to say that they are chosen in any respects.

    fokyc

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    ones raised in the truth have a study all their life and then study with a bro or sis (when teenager) for 3 years or more...

    My parents would have described it as a study, but it was never study by my definition.

    Questions were asked in the book, not by me.

    Questioning resulted in my being informed that "Nothing else is to be believed under this roof! and while I might not care if I displeased my father, that I wouldn't want to displease my Heavenly Father now, would I?".

    It was made quite clear that this "Heavenly Father" of my father's was a killer god who wasn't going to stand for any nonsense from bird food like me when Armageddon came along. Paradise Lost was the study book when I was a kid.

    That was the spiritual food for my developing mind. This was all supposed to be happening very soon.

    By the time I committed suicide by leaving to go into the world and waiting for jebooboo to kill me, I had not had a single serious question answered by my father. It was to be another thirty five years before I grew the balls to ask them and when I did his behaviour was not very Christian at all.

    Chris

  • wantstoleave
    wantstoleave

    Its pictures like that which scare the crap out of kids (and older ones)....which I remember making me scared to go to sleep each night.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    No, you are not correct. How can anyone wish to live in subjugation (aka enslaved, forceably controlled, conquered)? The human spirit dies in this type of environment.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    I wanna chime in here. I am a born in. For the most part I didn't feel special and I didn't feel that I was better than those who weren't born in and joined as adults. I put off studying for baptism until I was engaged and to be married in my hall. After the engagement dissolved I stopped studying because way down deep I just didn't believe the crap and I couldn't be a hypocrit. When I was much younger I remember talking with a group of kids after a meeting, a few of the kids were not born ins and were lamenting how they couldn't do the things they used to like birthdays and holidays because their parents were now jws. I thought they were lucky just to have been able to do those things and not feel like crap to have to sit in a classroom alone.

    Some (the jws) think you're right but being on the outside I know you're wrong.

  • nelly136
    nelly136

    you could tell the facefit conversions, they were warmly enveloped into all the social activities.

    the neccesary evil (but good for statistics) non facefitting novelty conversions generally found the welcome mat was taken back about as soon as their baptism towels dried.

    if the studies were popular they could hang it out for years and hang with the dubs be invited to get togethers etc without so much as dipping a toe,

    but there is always the not making the desired progress clause time limits to get rid of some of the less desirable when the love bomb mat was worn out. i expect that would vary depending on your congregation, yours is probably different to the one i was in.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Being raised in fear is not the same thing as being "protected".

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    If by better you mean better footstep followers of the gov body, then yes I would say born-ins. It is a horrible upbringing in the cult and sucks for the child. I speak from experience as a born-in.

  • AuntBee
    AuntBee

    "Their parents protect them beyond belief,"

    I'll have to totally agree with AngelEyes on this one, from the one JW family i've been around for several years. I just found out that one of the sons who is now a freshman at the local University --- his mother went to campus with him on the first day, and stayed all day, to walk him to the various classes.!! i'm sure he's thankful for this fine protection.......My heart goes out to the guy, actually. very sad. I know not all JW moms would do this, but i think the JWism definitely enters into it, and causes a tremendous amount of dysfunctional enmeshment. --- This same mom phoned her other son while she was out of town, while he was watching FIREWORKS with some worldly people, to tell him she was "mad at him." He's nearly 20!

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