You did well, BUT if you were to start voicing this opinion to other JWs could could find yourself in the back room. You are not supposed to discuss differing views on things the GB puts in print. If you have a differing view you are told to put it on the backburner and NOT discuss it with anyone...waiting on the wt's jehovah to make any necessary changes. If the person continued to speak on the topic then they would start to get watched for apostasy.
How much apostate is in each JW ?
by inbetween 96 Replies latest jw experiences
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isaacaustin
However, this point in particular- I do not beleive the WT printed anything definite...so I think this is a moot point anyway.
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sunrising
Perhaps what has been "liberally" labeled as apostate is not apostate at all.
Are we not individually tasked with testing "every inpired expression?" (1 John 4:1) To question any expression from any source - WTBTS included - is not a sin nor are those asking the questions to be labeled unfairly as apostates.
Did not the noble men of Beroea receive "the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." They tested every inspired expression.
We must never lose focus that JWs are the only people on earth that has advertised Jehovah's great name and His Kingdom. What a privilege this is. At the same time we must not forget the times in which we live. Jesus foretold the arrival of an evil slave prior to his return. That this evil slave would start to beat his fellow slaves. (Matthew 24:48)
It would be a mistake to say that Jehovah's House has been purged clean. We cannot affix a date on the return of Jesus according to Matthew 24:48. But we do know that the weeds (evil slave) will mature right along with the wheat (faithful slave) up until the harvest. This evil slave is present and they cannot easily be distinquished from the good and faithful slaves. So "who really is the "faithful and discreet slave ...?" Do you know? (Matthew 24:45)
Of course there are apostates in the true sense of the word. An apostate is anyone who has abandonment of a previous loyalty. We must be very careful in how we toss this word apostate about. The first disciples of Jesus were apostates were they not? They abandoned a faith and followed Jesus.
As JW, we have been duped into thinking that an apostate is any one who disagrees with the "feeding program" from who we have been told is the Faithful and Discreet Slave.
This Slave has been wrong in the past.
I remember when JW used to smoke cigarettes and celebrate Christmas. Would any of us label individuals back then - who spoke out against smoking and celebrating Christmas - an apsotate?
I remember when Kingdom Halls were segregated. Yet are to tell me that any Brother or Sister who raised questions about that back then were apsotates?
So why should Brothers and Sisters be intimidated and afraid to raise questions concerning WTBTS teachings that appear to conflict with what is written in God's word the Bible?
The idea that these Brothers we call the Faithful and Discreet Slave dispenses to us what they receive from Jesus does not hold water in a scriptural sense. That would mean all of the mistakes and misinformation came from Jesus; and we know that would not be the case.
Yes, we sometimes receive good information from the Brothers. But when one dines at any table, it would be wise to examine your food before fully taking it in. This is the testing of every inspired expression.
There are many times when the food is fine. There there are times when something does not smell or taste right. Are we to blindly ingest it anyway?
The bottom line is that we do not serve or worship and organization. We must think: The earthly organization - be it Jehovah's - is still made up of imperfect men. To serve it is akin to idolatry. We serve Jehovah.
And when it comes to scripture, we are to "obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)
So if the WTBTS says something that you personally have a problem with, you are not out of place - as far as Jehovah is concerned - to test what has been said to see if it measures up to what is written. Then YOU take it to Jehovah in prayer. To blindly accept everything you are told by anyone - WTBTS included - is a mistake because you are relying on the wisdom of men rather than Jehovah.
And, for an organization to discourage this "testing of every inspired expression" only confirms that an evil slave is present and is actively feeding us.
Most Brothers and Sisters I know are terrified of displeasing "The Organization" and the Elders rather than Jehovah. There is something very very wrong with this.
We are now over 7 million strong worldwide. Our make up is of people of every nation. Why then is the Governing Body made up on only White Brothers? Does this accurately reflect Jehovah's organization? Something is very wrong. An Evil Slave is present. This does not come from Jehovah.
Brothers and Sisters, if you love the truth - and you should - then you should carefully watch what is being placed in front of you to eat (in a spiritual sense).
No, you are not trying to cause trouble, but you know deep down something is not right because you read the Bible to. You have an analytical mind and can think and reason.
Is the WTBTS Jehovah's channel? To fully understand what has been asked here, one must consider in times past when the channel was supposedly dried up.
I believe that the symbolic drying up of the River Euphrates applies to the House of God. No Watchtowers, Awakes, Kingdom Ministries, Kingdom Halls, Conventions or Assemblies. All we will have is our faith and our Bibles. We are already seeing the start of this now with the new meeting arrangements. Many of us feel naked at the door without our bookbags full of publications. We will be left naked with only our Bibles and the truth we carry in our hearts.
Jesus spoke of this Great Tribulation at Matthew 24:15-25. This Great Tribulation is not what the world will suffer, it is what WE will suffer. Read in those scriptures the many times Jesus uses the words "you" and "your."
For example, at Matthew 24:20-21 Jesus said,
"Keep praying that YOUR flight may not occur in wintertime, nor on the sabbath day; for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until no, nor will occur again."
Jesus is not telling the world, in general, that it should pray that their flight mat not occur in the wintertime or the sabbath day. Why, most of the world does not believe in Jesus or Jehovah. No, Jesus is speaking to his followers and what they will suffer.
Well, the WTBTS explains Matthew 24:20-21 as applying to "this wicked generation" and that "immediately after those days" refers to the destruction of false religion does not measure up with what the Bible teaches at Matthew 24:15-25. Those scriptures are referring to tribulation for us: God's people. And, I believe the destruction of the WTBTS. Why?
Because Matthew 24:22 says,
"In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
Nothing in the preceeding scriptures references the destruction of Satan's empire of False religion. EVERYTHING references tribulation God's people will have.
Satan's empire of false religion will fall when the nations do at Armageddon.
Yet, to question this labels one an apostate. Why? Because it disagrees with what the WTBTS - not the Bible. Yet, we are to obey God as ruler rather than men.
Is Babylon the Great who the WTBTS says it is? Or, is this a diversion from the truth?
Read Rev 18:1-4 and think.
We are told that Babylon the Great is Satan's Empire of False Religion. Yet Rev 18:2 says that Babylon the Great became "a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird"
That means that she was not always in that condition. She must have been a clean organization.
But she becomes something quite different.
Since when has Satan's empire of False Religion been clean? Never !
Yet, we see at Revelation 18:4 the call for Jehovah's people to get out of her.
Now think: Before Bablyon the Great became a dwelling place of demons, she was clean and pure worship and service to Jehovah must have occurred their. So Jehovah's people must have been within her: a clean organization. But at Rev 18:2 she becomes something different. Now Jehovah calls his people to come out of her. (Rev 18:4)
So, who do you think Babylon the Great really is?
We attribute everything to Christendom and everyone else, when Jesus and John (at Revelation) is speaking concerning us.
In our study of the Revelation Climax Book, when I read the new understanding of Rev 18:4, I knew something was not right. We ignore the obvious: That Babylon the Great is Jehovah's earthly organization that has been over-run by an Evil Slave class (influenced by Satan).
That is why Jehovah is calling His people to get out of her because He will destroy her.
Another thing we ignore. We believe this is unthinkable. Yet, Jehovah in the past allowed a foreign invader to destroy his holy temple and take his people captive. It will happen one more time and after that, it will not happen again.
" for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again."
Our beloved WTBTS will be devastated. We had better be in expectation of it.
We should pray to Jehovah like we have never before for understanding and wisdom. Build your faith up now Brothers because you are going to witness something totally unexpected.
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isaacaustin
Sunrising, can you paraphrase that please, concisely. Thanks
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Olin Moyles Ghost
To answer the OP's question...
It depends on what you mean by "apostate." I don't think there's a JW alive who believes every single thing the WT teaches. For example, I know numerous "strong" JWs who don't believe that you have to be an active JW to survive Armageddon. Lots of Witnesses don't think there's anything wrong with birthdays...but they go along with it out of tradition and peer pressure. And anyone who thinks about the JW fulfillments of Revelation (for example, the 7 trumpet blasts being district conventions) has to know that's a bunch of bunk.
But I wouldn't say that these JWs necessarily "have any apostate in them." In order to have some "apostate" in you, there needs to be some questioning of the Society--particularly, its status as the God's sole channel of communication. As far as I can tell, the large majority of Witnesses don't question the authority of the Society.
Yes, there's a dichotomy present--on one hand they don't believe all the teachings, but on the other hand they don't question the Society's claim to be God's sole channel. But I think most of us have been there.
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isaacaustin
OMG, I think you are right...but I think you are right only because the JWs who do not question the authority put a mental block to not allow such questioning. They dismiss/justify...and the indoctrination program of the meetings/reading slowly atrophies one's critical thinking to the point where one can not understand the significance of things except as the WT tells them.
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jookbeard
AE , these new scrolls that are to be opened, is it before or after billions of innocent young babies and children have been destroyed?
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OnTheWayOut
Many many JW's have problems with accepting and following every last bit of direction from the Governing Body and believing every last bit of the doctrine. Tons of them would take a blood transfusion or give it to their child if a clear life-threat were present. Many do not shun their loved ones who have DA'ed or been DF'ed. We have many come on here (JWN) defending WTS despite clear counsel to just stay out of these debates. My wife recently went to a Catholic Church to attend a funeral of a friend's baby, not even a relative, and no pressure from a non-JW to attend. We could go on and on.
It's something- but not much. Most JW's are not about the entire package. They feel that WTS is closer to the truth than anyone else. They feel that the stake vs. cross, no eternal soul, life forever on earth, door-to-door recruiting, refusal to celebrate pagan-roots holidays, etc. etc. makes them more RIGHT than the rest of Christianity. They feel that they know the Bible because they know a handful of "proof" texts and they know how to find the books of Zephaniah or Collosians.
The dangerous mind-control has been effective. JW's are afraid of stepping into a church or even starting to read anything "apostate." They are afraid of displeasing Jehovah by verbalizing doubts or by being irregular in recruiting. -
isaacaustin
AE, my question is this: You stated that the Wt says we will not remarry? This is what you said: inbetween, no i dont have doubts regarding the resurrection re marrying, they say they wont remarry BUT being open minded and because they havent said they wont marry EVER,
Then you indicated we will learn more when the new scrolls are opened which could be totally different from what the Wt says. If the new scrolls will contradict what the WT says why do you think the WT has the truth?
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Mr. Majestic
I think that there is a lot in there that have these leanings in their questionings. I still bump into a lot of JW’s and I love to see how far I can push them and get them to reveal what they truly believe inside. At first you will bump into their indoctrination, but if you take them past that and prise open their mind by making them feel (which actually isn’t all that hard when you know how) then it is amazing to the depth of questioning that most JW’s have, and the volume of papering over they do with JW clichés.
So many have a depth of questioning that never surfaces because of JW policy, but what amazes me is how much is revealed when you do open up people who are in, and it is so easy to see the ulterior motive as to why people are in the ‘truth’ at those moments.