How much apostate is in each JW ? (page 9)

Butterflyleia85

Isaacaustin, yeah I was thinking she was going to too, but the pm... and your claims on my other posts have been stuck in my brain. What holds the WTS so highly... How did God apoint them? (Geez why can't God come down here and tell us!!! lol This is driving me nuts.)

TD

Interesting discussion

I think there is a certain amount of confusion over what constitutes "Apostasy" because the JW organization has various definitions depending upon the subject in question.

There are beliefs that you must accept to be a JW. These include but are not limited to:

That we are living in the "Last days"
That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914
That God's name is Jehovah
That Jesus is a created being and not part of a Godhead.

All of these are doctrinal "Sacred cows." A JW (In theory) cannot doubt any of these teachings even privately. (I say, "In theory" because there is no way anyone would know as long as the JW keeps their mouth shut.)

For other, lesser beliefs, a different standard for "Apostasy" applies. The JW is free to doubt as long as they don't actually act on that doubt and/or try to persuade others to their viewpoint.

For example, I have a good friend who is JW and a veterinarian. He's written several letters to the JW parent organization over the years disagreeing with various teachings, the most serious of which would be the teaching on blood. He's never gotten in trouble and never had his "Privileges" yanked from him. The letters were respectful but not fawning and more importantly, he did not put them on the spot by requesting a reply for something he well knew they couldn't answer.

I think many JW's fall into this category. As other participants mentioned, some don't accept the idea that resurrection to earthly life means celibacy; that miscarried babies will not be resurrected, that the animals were all originally vegetarians, etc. For these types of teachings, the disagreement/doubt in and of itself is not automatically apostasy.

Butterflyleia85

I agree TD... that's very true my grandpa (Elder) said that way back when he was alive. I just couldn't put my finger on it at this time.

Deputy Dog

TD

All of these are doctrinal "Sacred cows." A JW (In theory) cannot doubt any of these teachings even privately. (I say, "In theory" because there is no way anyone would know as long as the JW keeps their mouth shut.)

For other, lesser beliefs, a different standard for "Apostasy" applies. The JW is free to doubt as long as they don't actually act on that doubt and/or try to persuade others to their viewpoint.

How would you rate the hatred of field service?

isaacaustin

butterfly, I am sending you a pm now...check soon

Butterflyleia85

But what is the situation today? During the nineteen intervening centuries since the first-century visible theocratic organization, the Christian congregation has undergone serious changes and split-ups. The flock of God has been scattered and hundreds of sects, just like those that Paul warned the Corinthian congregation against, now exist throughout Christendom. Has this advanced the theocratic order and the brotherhood of the Christian congregation? On the contrary, Christendom’s religious disorganization has resulted in violent religious wars and persecution. As an example and prophetic pattern of these reprehensible leaders of Christendom, the apostate priests of Israel were addressed by Jeremiah, at Jehovah’s direction: "‘Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasturage!’ is the utterance of Jehovah. Therefore this is what Jehovah the God of Israel has said against the shepherds who are shepherding my people: ‘You yourselves have scattered my sheep; and you kept dispersing them, and you have not turned your attention to them.’" (Jer. 23:1, 2, 11, 12) Jehovah will not allow such false shepherds to go unpunished. (The Watchtower 10/1 1967 pg 585-591)

It's when it gets really bad they step in... they want to avoid this at all costs. Allowing one to think for themselves and come to their own reasoning but warning them not to stubble others.

JWoods

I will have to say that I spent a good 10 years in it as an elder and the whole while did not believe these:

NONE of the dates. No, not even 1975 (before the year 1975.) I actually knew other elders prior 1975 breakdown to say: probably Jehovah is testing his people to see what they do if he does not bring the end.

NONE of the earth chronology - 7,000 year creative day, geologically recent global flood, none of it. I was a good science student in school.

NONE of the demon stories. I was the go-to guy when somebody saw a walking smurf, so they appreciated this somewhat.

Name Jehovah belongs in the Bible NT - researched it myself, it is ridiculous.

Everlasting life on "Earth" in human fleshly state. Implausible on so many levels that there is really nowhere to begin.

I rationalized it all as that they were after all a "young religion" and might someday get a clue. Finally, I realized that I was getting older and needed to do something more useful than this dementia with the rest of my life.

TD

DD.

How would you rate the hatred of field service?

It's no secret that many (most?) JW's secretly hate it. I actually heard a JW circuit overseer say as much from the platform once. (The context was making a shepherding call on a JW man who was home working in his garden instead of field service.)

"Inactive" and "Irregular" JW's are viewed as weak, but neither of those are actionable offenses that would justify a "Judicial committee."

Of course a JW could wind up in hot water if they began teaching others that there is more to the Christian ministry than knocking on doors, (gasp!) or that the expression, "House to house" does not really mean house to consecutive house as in starting at one end of the street and knocking on every door one by one.

BluesBrother

They start off believing everything they are told , like a spiritual babe. As they "grow up in the truth" they can have private thoughts. The ones that I know well certainly do. But would they say so in public? No Way!

The older ones all think that some of the new teachings are "debatable" , but apostasy? No ...because they would never say it out loud.

cawshun

I hate how the JW's use the word " Apostate", its just their way of stopping any questioning of the WT.

What really surprises me the most is, JW's today follow Rutherford's teachings, why are they following an " Apostate"? When Charles Taze Russel had the approval from the Lord that they were the only religion teaching the proper food at the proper time, they did celebrate Christmas and smoked ect.... Rutherford say's those things are wrong to do. Well, according to Jesus, they were ok, he gave his approval.

It's all such a farse!

How much apostate is in each JW ?

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