Are You Paul or are you Saul?

by reniaa 347 Replies latest jw friends

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  isaacaustin

  • To isaacaustin (Post 1485) and reniaa (Post 1434): I believe that being "blessed by spirit" means that both C.T. Russell and J.F. Rutherford were more than "just imperfect men". They were leaders whom Jehovah appears to have honoured because of their loyalty and integrity and calling. After all, Matthew 28: 19-20 and Matt.24:45-47 continued to be in play then as now. Their blessed leadership allowed for the growth and blessing of the rest of the Body since Jehovah was favourably listening to their prayers. I think both Russell and Rutherford understood that the real issue was Universal Sovereignty, and that preaching was/ is for all to demonstrate their loyalty to this issue. The issues facing the brothers manifested themselves differently as history moved along, and Jehovah has allowed each leader some latitude in expressing their understanding of the Divine Will. Each was corrected in the way that Jehovah saw fit to allow.

  Spike....You said: They were leaders whom Jehovah appears to have honoured because of their loyalty and integrity and calling. After all, Matthew 28: 19-20 and Matt.24:45-47 continued to be in play then as now.

  In what way were they honored and why? Matt 24:45-7 is simply a question of whther a Christian is awake and alert in fulfilling their roles (if so they are rewarded on judgment day...or if they do not fulfill their responsibilites they are punished. Russell and Rutherford obviously were false prophets so were disqualifies from being faithful and wise servants. Their tainted track records show they were clearly led by a spirit- BUT NOT JEHOVAH;S Spirit. They did not show any understanding of sovereignty except to themselves. Preaching of false prophecies and a false gospel in no way shows loyalty to the issue of God's sovereignty.
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  isaacaustin

  Saul the Pharisee went door to door, just as Paul the Christian did. But Saul was on a search-and-destroy mission, whereas Paul's mission was one of search-and-rescue. Grace is like forgiveness, we benefit from it only as we avail ourselves of it and practice it in our dealings with others, whomever they might be

  Umm Spike...Saul went door to door- to the homes of Christians to persecute them. Do you honestly think he went to each and every home or do you think he went to the homes of known Christians to persecute those Christians? Paul wnet to the homes of Christians to worship/teach...not to the homes of strangers unannounced to preach, as jwS do today.
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  LouBelle

  Are you Jacob or Israel?

  Are you Abram or Abraham?

  Are you Jesus or Christ?

  Personally it's not up to me to get anybody out of any religion. I know I cannot do that. If someone wants to clearly discuss bible TRUTH without getting offended or bringing in man made doctrine I'm all for it.

  Each person gets their moment of truth, as did Paul - Christ appeared to him, and Christ appears to us today, but you see you then actually have to do something about it, you've got to make the decision to leave what you thought was truth behind, grab Gods'truth with both hands and get out of religion, for it is truly a snare and a racket and be lead of his holy spirit. You have to be taught of God and not of men.
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  DaCheech

  reniaa does "blessed spirit" make rutherford become a drunken slush?

  cannot erase history, it is written and well preserved.

  as it says in deutoronomy Deuteronomy 13:1-.....

  "If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, 'Let us follow other gods' (gods you have not known) 'and let us worship them,' you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere.
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  reniaa

  Dacheech you focusing on hearsay and imperfections of men again, Remember Jesus was called a drunk too, there is nothing so dangerous as Gossip and gossip from people in rutherfords day is not factual but just plain Gossip. Indulge your need to character assassinate but it only shows desperation if you cannot argue the doctrines and focus on imperfection of men instead whether they are real or just gossip.

  Reniaa
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Renaia,

  What is it that you ultimately want for yourself and the world? A pain-free, peaceful life of harmony and to fulfill your potential? Alot of people who are humanists, agnostics, or yes even atheists want the same thing. Looks like many of them are making some headway in those areas. Of course it may never be the utopia many would like. One things for sure, a cult that just uses you and makes you think you're going to get those things will definitely keep you from making any genuine progress for yourself. You're just a battery for them.
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  reniaa

  Dacheech makes a fair point destroying someones religion is nothing like a burning building, using that type of analagy is just justifying what you know is unloving actions. Jesus did not destroy the jews in the way you would the witnesses becasue he understood from his father the 'God of love' how to do things in loving way and how to respect people's choices.

  Reniaa
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  isaacaustin

  Jesus did not destroy the jews in the way you would the witnesses becasue he understood from his father the 'God of love' how to do things in loving way and how to respect people's choices.

  Reniaa

  My reply...Jesus actively refuted and spoke up to the Jewsih leaders. I do not agree with destructive actions taken against any group. I am all for showing people what is wrong with a group, refuting its beliefs, and moving their trust off of it leadership that appropriately beongs on Jesus. That is a loving act.
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  isaacaustin

  Reniaa, the mistakes of Russell and Rutherford are very relevant here because of their claim to be God's sole channel of truth. If they did not make that claim their mistakes could be chalked up to human error (but not theor false prophecies). Their making their claim of being God's sole channel based on their pre 1919 teachings makes those errors totally relevant here.
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  isaacaustin

  Dacheech makes a fair point destroying someones religion is nothing like a burning building, using that type of analagy is just justifying what you know is unloving actions.

  dacheech did not say this...spike did