by reniaa 347 Replies latest jw friends
isaac I was only making a point that God allows for leadership of men as part of the function of the Body, were and what they lead isn't the issue only that there are leaders and always have been leaders amongst men with my point to yizuman. Jesus didn't do away with this aspect of Gods organisation.
Where and what they lead is another debate.
Reniaa
Ok, I can agree that God allows for leadership as part of the function of the Body.
Hi Chalam
Actually Jehovah's Witnesses reclaim an old light they believe was there before the 3rd century apparent 'New light' of the trinity came along. there have always been One God believers throughout Christianities history who believed Jesus was literally the Son of God as the bible says repetively. Arias was one of them but he and his followers were executed and their paperwork destroyed by trinitarians whose 'search and destroy' policy was a also a very literal one.
But Yes I agree lets agree to differ :)
Reniaa
As a witness I may not agree with someone's choice of religion but I give them the credit from having the right to that choice and my right to offer them the chance to view an alternative which I believe offers more.
I think thats a great approach. Thats what several of us posters equally claim to be doing. We're presenting information and letting people come to their own conclusions. Using terms like "search and destroy" is demonizing and the very tool the WTS uses to instill fear in jws so as to not even consider any of the info.
In their own words, they say that one should scrutinize their beliefs and see whether its true or not (of course this is advice for those who aren't witnesses yet). Once you're a witness though you've got to steer clear of this and stifle your critical thinking. Honestly they cannot refute the fact that what is accurate will always stand up to error. Then why are they afraid to have their claims questioned? Why do they deliberately keep info from us?
Hi mad dawg
sorry for the delay, I am not interested in history of russel and rutherfords lifes they were just imperfect men. they were blessed by spirit in my opinion and I am ever grateful for the chance to be in a religion that serves Jehovah and his Actual son Jesus. but all things are done from God's allowance through his son Jesus so my Praise goes to Jehovah.
Reniaa
My reply: I will not adress the last part about the Father's relationship to the Son...that can be done on another thread. Regarding your statement of not caring of the history of Russell and Rutherford...that is simply blindness on your part in not seeing its significance. According to the GB's claim of being God's sole channel that history is quite relevant. On what basis was Russell chosen to handle God's earthly affairs- in light of his false prophecies? Aside from his false prophecies- which in itself disqulaifies him from any sort of kingdom privelages- what was he teaching so speacial that distinguished him from others? If his teachings were so special why the drastic change under Rutherford? If Rutherfords leading led them into captivity due to being unclean why were they relased from captivity when they were still practicing the same things that sent them into Babylonish captivity? And why after being released, while still dirty, were they given such an aweome privelage of being God's steward on earth?
Hi midget
What more do you offer? midget because just freedom from what you think is an evil organisation is what makes your motives search and destroy! where is there alternative hope? it isn't a country club we are talking about here but peoples fundamental believes and hopes in God and life? Destroy that and what is left, as a witness I offer a hope and don't pull away peoples support structures first. My sole motive is not to destroy that support structure which most admit on here is their motive freedom from this is enough they say.
Reniaa
Reniaa:
Hi midget
What more do you offer? midget because just freedom from what you think is an evil organisation is what makes your motives search and destroy! where is there alternative hope? it isn't a country club we are talking about here but peoples fundamental believes and hopes in God and life? Destroy that and what is left, as a witness I offer a hope and don't pull away peoples support structures first. My sole motive is not to destroy that support structure which most admit on here is their motive freedom from this is enough they say.
Reniaa
My reply: It isn't what midget, or me or anyone else has to offer. Helping one to break free from cultic mind control is the humane thing. Just as if you are in a ohuse biurning down you run, you do not delay to figure out where to go. Of course I am always ready to lead one to Jesus...but the person has to decide whether or not to follow. If I had the opportunity to help one out I would...and I would attempt to lead to Jesus. If I had foreknowledge (if that were possible) that the person in ocming out of the org would not accept Jesus but would choose another course, yes, I would still opt to help them to have their own mind freed and their own authentic personality flourish.
My sole motive is not to destroy that support structure which most admit on here is their motive freedom from this is enough they say.
So are we to leave them in a harmful, abusive cult just because we don’t have another ‘faith’ to replace it with….??
If we see a home on fire...and a family is inside resting peacefully...or perhaps downstairs enjoying a nice meal together unaware of the fire upstairs should we let it go...being that they are perfectly happy as is...especially if we are unable to let them live with us or provide them where to go? Or should we do our best to free them and let them work out where to go- with their lives in hand?
These arguemnts presented Reniaa are typical WT rhetoric...crybaby arguments such as "you tear down but don't provide an alternative" "you don't beleive in the Bible" etc...
Those are red herrings. Is the WT a safe haven, God's org, the place for salvation OR is it a dangerous mind-control cult? Obviously a dangerous mind control cult. The Wt rhetoric seeks to draw attention away from that.
• To isaacaustin (Post 1485) and reniaa (Post 1434): I believe that being "blessed by spirit" means that both C.T. Russell and J.F. Rutherford were more than "just imperfect men". They were leaders whom Jehovah appears to have honoured because of their loyalty and integrity and calling. After all, Matthew 28: 19-20 and Matt.24:45-47 continued to be in play then as now. Their blessed leadership allowed for the growth and blessing of the rest of the Body since Jehovah was favourably listening to their prayers. I think both Russell and Rutherford understood that the real issue was Universal Sovereignty, and that preaching was/ is for all to demonstrate their loyalty to this issue. The issues facing the brothers manifested themselves differently as history moved along, and Jehovah has allowed each leader some latitude in expressing their understanding of the Divine Will. Each was corrected in the way that Jehovah saw fit to allow.
• To Mr. Majestic (Post 853): "harmful, abusive cult" is one view, "support structure which most admit on here" is another, very different one. The first indicates "intrusion and coercion", where as the other is "reliance and cooperative interest".
• To isaacaustin (Post 1488): Warning neighbours of obvious danger (such as a fire) or alerting the emergency response team is one thing. Recognizing, avoiding, and diffusing the spiritual dangers is something else. Just as different countries have different licensing requirements one from another, so different religious bodies differ one from the other in practices. Both medicine and religion are a matter of health, free will, and informed consent. Choice determines outcome. It's a matter for each of the participants what each is willing to accept.
— Spike Tassel.
