Are You Paul or are you Saul?

by reniaa 347 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mr. Majestic
    Mr. Majestic
    Hi mrmajestic
    You think taking away any belief in God is the best thing for people? and you alternative gives us life beyond death?
    Hope for eternal life?

    Reniaa, if your beliefs and faith are not true and all lies, then you don’t offer any of those things either……

    What would there be to gain if such was the case..??

    It is better to live in reality than fantasy surely..??

  • Mr. Majestic
    Mr. Majestic
    You think taking away any belief in God is the best thing for people?

    If that 'god' proved not to exist and the belief in him proved to be harmful to people, then yes I would say that it would be the best thing..

  • reniaa

    Hi mrmajestic

    what is your fantasy is my hope.

    Atheism has no attraction for me becasue It gives people no reason to do more than this following scripture.

    1 Corinthians 15:32
    If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

    Your way offers no hope just acceptance of death which for me just isn't an option, I am a fighter :)


  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1107304683 0 0 159 0;} @font-face {font-family:"DejaVu Sans"; panose-1:2 11 6 3 3 8 4 2 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-419418369 -771686913 168042537 0 -2147483137 0;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:1627400839 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;} @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:536871559 0 0 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-style-next:"No Spacing"; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-weight:bold;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing {mso-style-priority:1; mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-weight:bold;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family:"DejaVu Sans"; mso-hansi-font-family:"DejaVu Sans";} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->

    To Mr. Majestic: The question of FREEDOM is interesting, also. Some think of freedom TO do something. Some think of freedom FROM something. I think of freedom OF something. Like freedom OF worship, freedom OF the press, freedom OF movement. Things that allow life to be more loving, more understanding, more helpful, more enlightening.

    According to my understanding of the Bible's own words, FAITH is something we can assuredly expect, based on proven evidence. (Heb. 11:1 paraphrased). According to my read of it, one would find evidence of RESURRECTIONS, but not FAIRIES. I would suggest that even you, Mr. Majestic, have a FAITH of a dimension, even as you speak of "freedom that is beyond faith". Your FAITH is your expectations, based on the EVIDENCE that you have considered and now accept after receiving PROOF to your satisfaction.

    Where we all differ is what we each consider as EVIDENCE and sound PROOF, and what we each do with what we consider. Perhaps, God's word trumps all else, or should. Perhaps, something else does, or should. Our individual analysis will determine what our individual relationship with Jehovah is. Whether Jehovah's views are deluded, or whether at least some of ours are: our analysis determines our spiritual maturity. Do we have the unfounded dogmatism characterised by Saul the Pharisee, or do we demonstrate the reasonableness of Paul the Christian?

  • reniaa

    Hi mad dawg

    sorry for the delay, I am not interested in history of russel and rutherfords lifes they were just imperfect men. they were blessed by spirit in my opinion and I am ever grateful for the chance to be in a religion that serves Jehovah and his Actual son Jesus. but all things are done from God's allowance through his son Jesus so my Praise goes to Jehovah.


  • Mr. Majestic
    Mr. Majestic
    Atheism has no attraction for me becasue It gives people no reason to do more than this following scripture.

    Well, firstly Reniaa, I am definitely not an atheist, as if you would care to take the time to look through a few of my past posts on this forum you will see that I actually attack that concept as rigorously as the concept of religious faith.

    Your way offers no hope just acceptance of death which for me just isn't an option, I am a fighter :)

    But if it is a fact that if your faith and belief isn’t true, then death awaits you as much as it does me. It's just that I accept it and you can't...

    But just to say Reniaa, your posts to me are very telling as to the deeper reason why you hold so tightly to the faith of the JW’s. Thank you for being so honest…

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    • To Mr. Majestic: If you are "attacking … the concept of religious faith", then what about the theistic definitions of FAITH (found at Hebrews 11:1) and CORRECT RELIGION/ WORSHIP (found at James 1:27).
    • To Reniaa: If I were against these Scriptural definitions, I'd be anti-theistic, not atheistic.

  • reniaa

    Hi Spike

    I stand corrected, It is hard on these threads to actually know from were people are coming especially in regards to their own beliefs (they can be very diverse) but to be honest this knowledge isn't needed, if as you said earlier, their mission is only to 'Search and destroy' It isn't required that their Prey has a knowledge of why they do it to them only that the prey gets the full consequences.

    This is why I hate the whole 'mind control' lie because it's just a way of making the person take a choice out of their Victims hands, it's letting the perpetrater say to themselves 'I'm doing it for their own good whether they want it or not because they are not in their right minds.' It giving yourself an excuse to have power over the another person's right to personal choices by arguing they are too incapable/inferior of making a choice so you make it for them. Very very dangerous road to go down!

    As a witness I may not agree with someone's choice of religion but I give them the credit from having the right to that choice and my right to offer them the chance to view an alternative which I believe offers more.


  • isaacaustin

    Reniaa, you sure have a short term memory....

    Hi yizuman

    there is adifference between looking for men for salvation and accepting the annointed doctrine and the leaders in Men. I think the bible is very sound on this, it isn't the odd scripture but a bible fact.

    Numbers 1:16
    These were the men appointed from the community, the leaders of their ancestral tribes. They were the heads of the clans of Israel.

    My reply: Correct....we are no longer under that system...

    Romans 12:7-9 (New International Version)

    7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

    My reply: What kind of leadership? Leading in the worship of Jesus- not in enforcing a code of written laws.

    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey yourleaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    My reply: For the 6th time- read verse 7- obedience to the point they are teaching the word of Christ.

    Hebrews 13:24
    Greet all yourleaders and all God's people. Those from Italy send you their greetings.

    My reply: Sure, greet your leaders.

    Revelation 5:10
    You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they willreign on the earth."

    My reply: Yes, they will reign ON the earth...not over the earth from heaven. LOL Identify them Reniaa

    You might be able to argue that Jw leaders are not doing their job correctly in your opinion so pick a faith with leaders you do agree with. but the Principle of having leaders and be organised as a people under these leaders with responsibility is a complete bible theme and anyone who thinks differently is just ignoring the bible on this


  • Chalam

    Hi reniaa,

    Thanks for the words :)

    you and I just have adifference of opinion, you follow trinitarian christianity and I follow One God Jehovah Christianity, We will never agree doctrinely, but if you went from door to door preaching Gods message as you understand it, trying to bring people to your God and in process they may give up previous beliefs I would not blame you and I would respect you.

    I agree we have a difference of opinion but I think a lot is at stake!

    If you are right I will be destroyed at Armageddon and spend the rest of eternity "conscious of nothing".

    If I am right and you are not born again then you will spend eternity in a literal and conscious torment Revelation 14:10 Revelation 20:10 Isaiah 66:24 Mark 9:48 Daniel 12:2

    As for preaching, I think you can see I have my shoes on Ephesians 6:15 and am not ashamed of the gospel Romans 1:16 2 Timothy 1:8 but give an account of my hope in Jesus 1 Peter 3:15 I acknowledge Him before all men, not "jehovah"

    Matthew 10:32-34 (New International Version)

    32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

    As far as door to door preaching goes, that is pretty much a fruitless task IMHO. I dislike people knocking on my door to sell me something, and I expect most others do, especially "religion" for them. My ministry is to those I meet "as I go" and are "men of peace". God has not failed to give us wisdom

    Psalm 32:8-9 (New International Version)

    8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
    I will counsel you and watch over you.

    9 Do not be like the horse or the mule,
    which have no understanding
    but must be controlled by bit and bridle
    or they will not come to you.

    I actually respect any religion that makes an effort to do the preaching manifest from the bible.

    Well it is a free world. I can't say I like it when I see people getting sucked into "religion". Jesus died so we can have far more than that Matthew 27:51

    This is a debate forum and I am freer in my opinion on here than I would be in Preaching environment unless directly asked.

    I agree, freedom of thinking and speech is good. I think you are scattering you seeds on hard ground here though. Most have rejected being a JW because they have recognised the fruit Matthew 7:16-18 and are unlikely to heed your message.

    I have had people tell me they believe aliens are God and they are waiting to be taken up by a UFO to the next plain of reality or a guy that said Dolphins are the future of man and have had the intelligence to give up being like men (this man used to have annual holidays to commune with dolphins he called it a uniquely spiritual experience). Did I laugh in there faces and say they believed total rubbish and were evil demonic etc? Nope I tried to find a common ground with them from the bible to build a upon, with the alien person I showed spirit beings from the bible God's word, with the dolphin guy I used natures scriptures. I was not there to destroy but to give a new message. This was how I was taught as a witness and from the example from the bible!

    For sure, one of the signs of the age is the proliferation of "other gospels" and "anti christs".

    JWs and Mormons for example have been around for little over 100 years. Both claim Divine revelation and restoration of "the truth". Both have "new light" regarding Jesus. The Mormons claim He is the brother of Lucifer and thus an angel. JWs claim He is the archangel Michael. Mormons claim is "a god" and we can all be "gods". JW claim He is "a god" and there are also many "gods".

    Anyhow, let's agree to differ. You pray to your god and I will pray to mine John 1:1 Without Him I can do nothing anyhow John 15:4 John 15:6 John 15:7

    All the best,


Share this