so they never claimed to be an inspired prophet?

by ninja 189 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  MidwichCuckoo

  "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses....Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).

  (apologies if already posted - I suspect it has, lol)
• 

  iknowall558

  reniaa - -

  Acts 1 : 7 It is not for you to know the times or dates the father has set by his own authority.

  Luke 21 : 8 Look out you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying "I am he" and "The due time has approached."

  Deut18 : 20 - 22 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded , or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be PUT

  TO DEATH. You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the lord?" If what a prohet proclaims in the name of the lord DOES

  NOT take place OR come true, that is a message the lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumtuously.

  Matt 7 : 21 Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep's covering, but inside they are reavenous wolves. By their FRUITS you will recognize them.

  WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WT ORGANIZATIONS LOVE OF BIBLE SCRIPTURE ? They have for years gone against these very ones. Yes! They will apply these scriptures to other individuals, groups and religions ....but NOT to themselves. Is it a "mistake" to knowingly go against the very word of God ? The WT org are well known for their date setting / mistakes, yet somehow don't see how these scriptures apply to them.

  I know exactly what your response will be......It will be to defend and excuse what they have done in perfect imitation of your leaders. You accept the direction of your leaders you say.......So no doubt your response will be what your leaders have already said : -

  Feb 1st WT 1952 pg 79,80 You are told to disregard their past trail of unfulfilled predictions and to reject their erroneous teachings.

  Mar 22nd 1993 Aw pg 3 They ask "Why so many False Alarms" They put it across as 'It's only our opinion'

  Mar 15 WT 1986 pg 19 They speak of those who 'question' their prophecies...then go on to discuss what their motives are in doing this instead of explaining themselves.

  Sept 15 1998 pg 10 "It is easy for the established churches of Christendom and other people to criticize JWs because their publications have, at times, stated that certain things could take place on certain dates.........True, some expectations did not materialize at the anticipated time. But is it not preferrable to make some mistakes because of over-eagerness to see God's purposes accomplished than to be spiritually asleep as to the fulfillment of Bible prophecy?

  EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES !

  They are saying some dare to critcise them........GOD critcises them ! The BIBLE critcises them ! READ THE SCRIPTURES AGAIN.

  WHERE IS YOUR LOVE OF THESE BIBLE VERSES ? Are you going to tell me that these scriptures are ambiguous ? What "allowances" does Deut 18 make for someone just being a bit anxious or over zealous. NONE !

  Matt 7............Is it not true to say that just ONE false prophecy would make someone a False prophet.

  What would be the fruit of an apple tree?..... An Apple ! What is the fruit of a False prophet....... A False Prophecy. BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL RECOGNISE THEM !

  Oh.....and just to finish.......

  Paradise Restored to Mankind by Theocracy (1972) pg 353, 354

  RELIGIOUS HYPOCRISY EXPOSED

  "Jehovah, the God of the true prophets, will put all false prophets to shame either by NOT FULFILLING the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having His own prophecies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by the false prophets. False prophets will try to hide their reason for feeling shame by denying who they really are."

  Yes, again I have quote from you "imperfect tools" ...........But this is your leader speaking.......so you will follow their direction wont you........ just like you said. Or you could just follow what the scriptures say...........Difficult choice..........
• 

  passwordprotected

  See, I told you it's not a good idea to step up against iknowall.
• 

  androb31

  Reniaa,

  Are you still there? Please stop. You're embarrasing yourself. I'm embarrased for you, seriously. I know you gotta get your preaching time in somehow but please don't do this to yourself anymore. It's apparent to any outside observer that the only person on here you're trying to convince is yourself. At least as it turns out you are the only one convinced by what you repeatedly say. I mean no offense or anything but it appears that all of your "new" responses to everyone on this thread are just rearranged regurgitations of your prior responses. When you go head to head with some of the posters on here the only thing I can compare it to is like watching a highschool dropout debate science with a quantum physicist. It makes for some good entertainment but after awhile it just gets redundant. I really am feeling pity for you right now. Just some friendly advice!!

  I wanted to quote part of one of your posts here.

  "when you start teaching a message that isn't in the bible like trinity or immortality of soul etc then you are a false prophet" Check out this WT quote. (WT 8/15/81 pages 28-29) "They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But strangely, through such 'bible reading,' they have reverted right back to apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." .....Strange how 'bible reading' leads a person to the same conclusion as "Christendom's clergy", which teachings incidentally pre-date WT theology by roughly 1900 years. .....Here's a thought....No one has ever become a Jehovah's Witness by reading the Bible alone w/ out coaching of some sort by a JW or WT literature. If you know of any please correct me and I'll look at the evidence.
• 

  ninja

  leo.....they are questions no JW can answer....to do so either way means checkmate.........
• 

  passwordprotected

  @ androb31 - very decent post, my friend.
• 

  androb31

  Thanks passwordprotected. I couldn't take any more of the preprogrammed WT doublespeak...

  BTW- I truly enjoy your posts as well...
• 

  mindmelda

  No one has ever become a JW unless they study with Witnesses and get their particular doctrine on scripture. As the song says, "You have to be carefully taught!"

  When you have to almost literally forbid reading the Bible alone or in small groups without benefit of WTS literature, well, you're obviously not wanting the Bible to speak for itself. The idea that God doesn't deign to speak to individuals but can only speak through one group is not born out by the Bible itself.

  The fear that apostasy potentially comes out of individuals reading the Bible in small groups could be taken to define their own origins as potentially apostate! Isn't that how Bible Students themselves began?

  How many times in the Bible itself did God speak to individuals, including those of little faith or even non-believers? He used Moses, Abraham, Joseph, many prophets and John the Baptist. None of those people were organizations or represented any organization!

  This was one of the things I found so outrageous and paranoid that I just couldn't be part of it anymore.
• 

  hamsterbait

  There is one person here who could earn a FORTUNE doing stand up comedy, a la Borat..... at either end , top or bottom.

  Yet again JW HAS THE EFFRONTERY TO claim they know what I believe on some red-herring to do with doctrine. And I thought mind reading was demonism!!! Ah well John 8 and all that.

  HB
• 

  reniaa

  iknowall interesting scriptures but you bring nothing new to the table. I am not arguing that false prophets exist just that dates on EXISTING bible prophecy is not prophecy in itself, every scripture you quote deals with either people claiming to be christ or as in the case of deut being prophets that make prophecies that are not biblical or supporting Gods other that YHWH which itself would be more relevant to trinitarians.

  here is a more specific scripture on identifying a false prophet it's one you quote partly yourself without full context

  Matthew 7:15-23 (New International Version)

  15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

  21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

  and what is the fruitage? they perform false signs,miracles, To do actual prophecy itself and do not do the will of Jesus's father. It says nothing about putting dates on real ACTUAL bible prophecy as a fruitage of a false prophet.

  1 Peter 1:10-11 (New International Version)

  10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

  this scripture deals with God's people trying to find times on specific bible prophecies and they are not condemned as false prophets.

  Am I embarassing myself by pointing out nothing you have brought to the table shows bible condemnation as false prophets for trying to put a time on ACTUAL bible prophecy which we are directed to watch out for and prepare our flock for by Jesus himself.

  You can redefine scripture to your own inclination but it is a poor fit and clearly is not the proof you are trying to make it, the context just isn't there.

  If your only recourse is to quote imperfect wt's then I rest my case they are useful tools but not the inspired bible so subject to imperfection and as I said earlier the Jw's have never claimed the wt is inspired only spirit guided which any person that claims to be a follower of the true God should be able to claim spirit guidance, since the greek scriptures say it will be given us. So nothing wrong in claiming spirit guidance at all.