bizzybee the stats show 90% of df-ing is done on fornication grounds
You may well be right. But that is not what I said. Fornication is not guaranteed to get you DFd. Apostasy is.
(BTW, where do you get those stats? Just curious.)
WANTED ! JW Apologist
by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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BizzyBee
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reniaa
HI almighty
erm for a minute there I thought you'd made a mistake and were talking about L ron hubbard and scientologists (its down on record he sat around a table and said he knew a way to make easy money and that was create a religion, he spent most of his later life on his multi-million pound yacht avoiding the Tax man.)
did russel have a yacht like him? come on hun accusations are easy providing proof is harder. I have read the stuff on his life, he liked pyramids, was a dedicated biblie student among friends had acelebate marraige and didn't spend all the money he got in donations on himself, it was usually spent on printing presses.
I think IF i wanted power and money I would find a better chance in Politics :)
seriously though If you think all religion is just a'racket and a snare' that is your perogative personally in my search for God and his truth all roads have led me back to Jws not perfect with some things I am troubled over like shunning but they keep strictly to his words even if some may say too strictly. I have experienced the opposite in churches were acceptance of continual 'backsliding' means people think they can continue sinning without repentance just forgiveness. these are usually very fun enjoyable social groups but spirituality is on the backburner unless you count hopping around with holy spirit, something I found alarming when I first saw it.
I tried Atheism and it is too flawed for me, time is used as a plaster for all it's unanswerable questions, Ultimately it is just a 'faith' like any other, It's appeal is... it asks nothing or expects nothing and accepts only what we can see and know physically unfortunately this is also it's condemnation.
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OUTLAW
Reniaa.."Outlaw - I find your posts offensive"..Why?..Because I`m not afraid to speak truthfuly?..LOL!!...................................................."and will not reply"..You always reply..The problem,is you don`t answer anybodys questions..LOL!!...................................................to any that call me offensive names..I called you a "Bullsh*t Artist" on Lances thread..You claimed people were using "Hyperbole" with you..I pointed out "truthfully" you were the only one using Hyperbole..The Truth is you are a "Bullsh*t Artist"..I`m not name calling,just stating a fact..LOL!!...............................................and use sewar ("Swear") words with regards to myself.. If I point out Bullsh*t and it is Bullsh*t ..I`m not swearing,I`m simply stateing a fact.................................................. on topix I have learned I don't have to put up with this type of verbal attack..You can go after Lance and his Mom..But..If anyone calls you on it,you try to play the Victim.....Boo-Hoo! Poor Reniaa!!..LOL!!....................................................."and I hope moderators realise how abusive you get to pro-Jws on here.".. We have lots of active JW`s on this board..The difference between you and them is,they will actually answer a question..And..They`re not Selectivly Stupid...................................Are you done with your:"Poor me,I`m a Victim!!" Rant??..LOL!!........................Try actually answering some Questions.......And......If you go after other posters here,when it`s obvious they are going through a bad time..Your going to get your ass kicked........................................Have a nice Day!!..LOL!!
...OUTLAW -
passwordprotected
Yo, Reniaa, c'mon, throw me a frikkin bone here, ok? I'm asking serious questions!
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mrsjones5
might be a long one -
besty
you'll be lucky PP - it was absolutely clear your question was questioning the scriptural basis of the 1919 doctrine and yet Reniaa was more than happy to wander down the Red Herring cul-de-sac of whether the WTS being $$$$ was a problem or not compared to other religions.
She is not worth engaging as she consistently demonstrates selectively poor cognition skills.
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reniaa
hi booby
reniaa: does this mean that Jehovah can/will die or at least that he has a mortal soul?
Jehovah has a soul does this mean he will die? interesting question, since we are souls and were meant to live forever but die because of adamic inherited sin, I personally think the opposite is the case we have souls and are meant to live forever but are in an unnatural state because of imperfection.
hi bizzybee, I quote official wt policy on these things since most of the examples I've been shown have been when this has not been followed, people blame the wt for these , but again this is between gb, courts and people concerned not public discussion, google thirdwitness as he has done a thorough examination of documentions and court records for people to look at if they want more info from both sides not just one.
As for blood policy I think they could change it to personal choice without lawsuits and may do one day but they haven't yet, so can you provide documentary prove of these things you 'KNOW'
hi passwordprotected
password protected "Does the doctrine that the "faithful and discreet slave" class was selected by Jesus in 1919 stand up to Biblical examination?"
interesting question sorry I misread it before you were being specific on the year. Do I think they are have Gods blessing at this time? yes I do! Do I believe this statement, hmmm i'm not sure because break it down and this is a definite wt statement you say they make so do they specifically say you have to believe this particular statement to be saved? can you provide resent documentary proof of this please, I haven't seen anything this specific in wt's. if you go on their site it makes this statement.
Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; 24:21; 25:31.
this is a specific quote from their question and answer section no mention of 1919 and also they leave the actual who will be saved upto Jesus's judgement, they think they are the true faith but again no mention of 1919. you will have to rpovide proof that your atatement is correct hun.
I personally think 1914 could be dropped without hurting Jws to much but my research into recent emergence and upsurge charismatics and born agains, TV evangelists claiming to be holy spirit touched, lead me to speculate that they maybe are a direct fulfillment of bible prophecy when it talks on people claiming to do miraculous things falsely in Jesus's name ( speculation I keep to myself and forums lol), I'm fairly certain we are in the lasts days so 1914 could be relevent, I have no big issue with dates, these were done when they were a young faith, most Religions have commited this folly (1000 ad netted a lot of money for the major faiths when people gave up all their worldly possessions to gain favour in heaven only to find the churches who predicted the end kept these gifts :s) there are examples of people in thessolonians I think? that were cautioned for predicting Jesus was coming even then, they weren't condemned just cautioned for their eagerness.
again you seem to be stuck on gb only providing salvation when it clearly says Jehovah is the judge, we should follow the gb as authority over us if we agree they are to be our leaders and this is biblical about respecting leadership. whatever faith I chose to follow doctrinely I would respect the leaders and treat them according to God's word because this is what the bible teaches. but again ultimately only Jesus as god's representative can read our hearts.
your last question is one you should ask Jehovah through Jesus, who he chooses to save is upto Jesus and him, If you don't agree with witnesses and choose another faith who you think have it doctrinely right and you are sincere in this why are you worried? all faiths preach salvation is through Jesus and Jw's are no exception. but the tricky thing is the bible itself holds us accountable saying basically 'not all calling lord lord will be saved' why? if all roads lead to god why does Jesus preach narrow is the road leading to life, if he is that road why is it only few who are finding it? lol I have my own questions but again they are for god. Bible history shows men are accountable for their choices and actions and I am put off other faiths because they allow serious sins without any real effort to stop their members this is not the bible way so I personally am playing it safe and choosing an org that as closly follows the bible as I can find.
password your questions were valid and made me think and I thank you for them hun :)
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Farkel
:Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?
::No. Millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5;24:21; 25:31.
The WTS set up a classic strawman with their reply. They said that some will given a CHANCE to be saved in the resurrection. Others who ONLY become dubs before the great tribulation "may" be saved. What they conveniently do not say is that 99.9% of the population will NOT be saved at the great tribulation and only those who "take a stand for truth and righteousness" WILL be saved then. Since they teach that only the WTS stands for the truth, they answer a different question than what the original question was implying.
If the question was, "Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved at Armageddon, and that people of all other religions will be snuffed for eternity", they would have to answer "yes" to be honest. Hence, the strawman.
The statement about Jesus saying we should not be judging one another is a nice theory for dubs, but that's about it. In real life they judge the world and each other constantly.
If one were to ask a dub at the door the above question, they would say, "that's up to Jehovah to judge, not us." But of course, that is bullshit. "Jehovah" has already adjudged non-dubs to eternal death countless times in the Watchtower publications.
By the way, would you like to see the direct quote from the Watchower where it clearly states that 99.9% of the people on earth will be snuffed at Armageddon?
Thought not.
Farkel
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reniaa
hi bizzybee apostasy guaranteed? well I only know apostates from this forum and 2 things strike me since df-ing can only be laid aside for repentence and at the elders descretion on the sin involved, I can't see how an apostate would ever be repentent? to be an apostate you have to be opposing the faith you are apostate too, no longer believing what it preachers, Isn't df-ing moot point in this case if the person doesn't believe then they have walked away in mind anyway?
We are not talking about a country club here but our personal salvation, I take a few minutes choosing clothing to wear, I take longer choosing a car to drive, I take even longer choosing a Job I may have to spend years at and support my family, So choosing a faith which may lead to everlasting life and salvation for god is something that is deeply serious for me, so I respect an apostate who has left because they no longer believing Jw's are God's chosen faith and if I felt that way I would then go and find what IS God's true faith for that same reason.
What I do not like is apostates destroying Peoples faith without thought of replacing it with another, leaving the person stumbling around lost. If faith is salvation what bragging is there in destroying someones faith without giving them an alternate way to gain salvation through God?
hi farkel actually I agree with you since they think christendom is babylon, they do think it is condemned but then I still think this is a strawman as a whole (someone mentioned) since all faiths have to have the conviction of their doctrines and stand by them, I asked if charassmatics think Jw's will be saved because we do call Jesus our saviour the answer was 'No' because apparently we don't do it in the right way, which translated by me but not actually said in words by them means we have to believe Jesus is God or not put such much emphasis on Jehovah as god either in their eyes. we are condemned for this by them.
Born agains just say because we aren't born again as they experience it we are condemned as 'carnal' it's simple ans straightforward, but we all have to accept the bible's words we can condemn wrongful practises and use holy spirit to guide our bible conclusions but ultimately jesus is the Judge and so none can be absolutely certain how he will do this, like we cannot be certain when armageddon will come. Is the bible fair keeping us is this much suspense?
absolute certainty is for the Perfect, mad or the innocent, I am a cynic that chooses the best of what I can find :)
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BizzyBee
As for blood policy I think they could change it to personal choice without lawsuits and may do one day but they haven't yet, so can you provide documentary prove of these things you 'KNOW'
If the blood policy is the truth, why would they ever change it? My information comes from my cousin who was at Bethel and still has a network of friends from there - most whom are disillusioned and fading. I don't expect you to accept it since it is not documented.
Doesn't matter because even if you tossed out 90% of what is said here, there is still enough information including documentation for a reasonable scholar to be convinced beyond doubt that the WTS is false. BTW, the massive amounts of anecdotal information here is valid by its sheer weight and consistency. Unless you think this is a world-wide conspiracy involving thousands and thousands of ex-JWs?
Were you going to source your stat about 90% of DFings are for fornication?
...OUTLAW