Post 844 of 844 Since 3/11/2008 | Hi isaac I'm replying to even though some of your past posts have been less than polite as possible-san would put it. this is my own speculation and thoughts isaac but how could the angels not harvest the wheat from the weeds? unless the wheat had no choice but to go along with the weeds, a mixtured of threat of death and with-holding and obscuring of the bible, would make it near impossible to get the correct message and only a few holy spirit guided would know it. God knew that in time the bible in it's original state would be accessed by all again so the true message would be available and people able and willing to follow it, and this time would be when the world had reach a point of unpresidented wickedness that he could no longer ignore in fact 'none would be saved' unless his chosen king his son Jesus stepped in. Those that recognised this message in God's word would go on to preach this message to the entire inhabited world and then 'the end would come' chosen by Jehovah only lol not eager men of which ... Sorry but this does not answer the question Reniaa. You are simply saying wheat and weeds coexist. Again, the question was what the IBS were teaching that made them unique that they would be chosen above all others. They participlated in the same activites as their counterparts who they denounce. The laundry list of items that they list as to being the only group to have correct others taught the same exact things during that time period. So, what did the IBS teach that was so special that they alone were chosen above all others? Others preached...that is not unique to IBS. |
WANTED ! JW Apologist
by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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isaacaustin
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OUTLAW
"Mary I mention again we would have to condemn all faiths, for it's a practise in this case 'picking dates for christs return' which they did on a regular basis from Jesus's time onwards, this may yet be another past practise Jws need to drop and be refined on? who knows but I'm willing to wait on Jehovah in this since they preach what I consider to be truest bible doctrine in comparison to the 34,000 other Christian faiths that were quite as date happy as Jw's. as I proved on an earlier post it is easily googled."...............Reniaa..The subject is not about other religions..It`s about Jehovah`s Witness`s..Your goofy reply to Mary is ridicules.........................................."I have to say Mary you fit the example I find that many do on here, you condemn Jw's for a practise they once did and now have dropped, by there past acceptance of it and current condemnantion of the practise but yourself still do the practise and at no point apply this to yourself :S i'm sure there is a logical fallacy in this somewhere" ..AND.. I accept the dates because whether right or wrong the holy spirit must have been acting on or around that time for them to have been gifted with so many bible truths..Why would Jehovah`s Witness`s drop thier gifted truths?..The Gifted Truths must have not been true to begin with..Your 2 statements contradict each other..Your last statement contradicts itself..LOL!!...........................................................It's like saying boy A used to climb a tree realised it was dangerous and stopped doing it but Boy B who still climbs the tree risking life and limb condemns boy A for once climbing the tree saying 'It's no point you realised it's dangerous now because you did it so are still wrong'..Now your telling us a story about tree`s..You`ve been asked about the WBT$ gifted truths..And..You answer with a story about a Tree..LOL!!............................................and yet the bible allows for repentance of wrong actions as long as we finally recognise this and stop doing them..You have been given a list of the WBT$ gifted truths..Truths you admire..That are no longer truths..........Is there medication you should be on,that your not taking?..LOL!!...................................."Well thats my thoughts, enjoy lol or not! this conversation is beginning to go over old territory from pages ago with not much left to cover"..You still have`nt answered Besty..How long will he have to wait this time?...............................
...OUTLAW -
reniaa
trinity, hell, soul......it could have been the simple ones and a readiness to change under holy spirit direction, who knows? i'm not Jesus to decide these things, I only know that more than 100 years its still only tiny few christian faiths who are willing to drop 1600 year old false teachings in pursuit of biblical truths,
why do you soften the obviously unbiblical teachings of christendom still practised to this very day but then focus on the very early teachings of Jw's to try and debunk them? the bible never judges a man on what he was but what he becomes?
Why do you question them on their authority given by christ? all christianity was given that authority and the bible from the first century but it's what they did with these that will be the measure and maybe it was a seed ready to grow in open hearts on whoever was willing to listen, change and grow.
what have these other groups done with the 'talent' given from the their master?
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Awakened at Gilead
we would have to condemn all faiths
Agreed! That is why I choose not to believe in any man-made religion. You are coming to the right conclusion, it is just hard to accept.
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Doubting Bro
Reniaa- I posted this under the 1914 topic but you may not have seen it. This is basically the same discussion anyway so I thought I would post this here.
Reniaa - I agree that other religions have predicted the end of the world and your post shows just how long that is been going on. I also agree that because they predicted something that did not happen, they are false prophets and their religion didn't teach truth. However, I hold the WTS to the same standard and they, like the others, are also false prophets due to their inaccuracy regarding dates. Which means they also are not the true religion.
Remember the often used illustration where a cold glass of water is sitting on the table and you walk in from doing lawn work. Now, you really are thirsty and that water looks great. As you reach to grab the glass, someone takes a dropper and places ONE DROP of sewer water in the glass. Would you drink it? Of course not, that's disgusting. Now, look at religion the same way. Would you want to be involved in a religion that had just ONE DROP of falsehood?
I've used this illustration in numerous talks and got it from the WTS. I'm sure you've heard variations of it. The point is that the WTS holds other religions to a standard that they are not willing to hold themselves to. On the one hand, they claim to be Gods channel, the only true Christians - a claim which other religions also make. Yet, on the other hand, they play the imperfection card.
I think in matters of individual members conduct, the imperfection card is a valid one. But, in matters of theology, rules and especially in matters of setting dates, the WTS claims to be spirit directed. So, when they are directed by holy spirit to make a policy, then reverse that policy, whose fault is it? Why would God tell his only true worshipers something false. I can't find any example in the Bible where that has happened. Why would you have a spirit directed teaching on something so important like the generation that Jesus spoke about seeing the end only to change it, change it again, and finally change it back to the original? At what point was holy spirit not directing the changes? Or was it all a "test"? I thought Satan was the only one who tested Gods servants?
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reniaa
Outlaw, besty wants a definite answer on hwat I am not sure on outlaw but I am willing to accept becasue they are either right or the failings of a young religion.
."...............Reniaa..The subject is not about other religions..It`s about Jehovah`s Witness`s
You still do not get one point about me, when I look at christianity I look at it as a whole, I do not look at one faith conclude it is wrong then assume all the others are right by default which for some apparent reason many on here seem to be doing unless they just reject religion as a whole and become athiests having faith in 'Big Bang' instead, I measure them all by the same rule and test the doctrine they teach by the bible, at this time the Jw's are the most doctrinely correct however they got there by whatever route. they may yet have things to change and a long way to go constantly fighting the imperfection of men and Satan trying to bring in mores lies by other methods.
I have a choice now which is more than I would have had a couple of hundred years ago and I will choose a faith that has the most biblical truths in my opinion and will help me stop commiting gross sins in Gods eyes.
I suppose this all boils down to what you believe and what you want from a religion.
Undercover your words are appreciated but you forget GB do not claim perfection only spirit guidance which doesn't protect them from wrong paths only helps them and refinement is an ongoing process. they do say given Jesus teaching on weeds and wheat/Last days we need to make sure we are wheat not weeds lol and I have to say that does sound sensible.
Reniaa
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reniaa
Hi doubting bro
I understand your points doubting bro but if the signs start getting fulfilled all around our ears and a religion doesn't appear without some imperfection in it, will we be saved when all we have done is fence sit?
Did any of the early biblical faiths and leaders show perfection in action and purposeeven though they had direct teachings from God?
Show me a better religion that knows God's purposes better than the Jw's preach and I'll look at it. but I reserve the right to judge it by the bible if it preaches cross, hellfire and trinity it will fall at the first fence for me.
Reniaa
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Doubting Bro
signs start getting fulfilled all around our ears and a religion doesn't appear without some imperfection in it, will we be saved when all we have done is fence sit?
I guess I haven't seen any signs getting fulfilled. We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity, we have more problems across the world with obesity than we do with hunger, earthquakes have been stable, Black Death took more lives on a precentage basis than the Spanish Flu which was the biggest epidemic since 1914. So, I have trouble buying that we're in the "last days". People have been saying that for centuries. I used to believe that we were but once I objectively examined the evidence, I just don't see it. Also, I'm not the one who says I'm God channel. That's a tall order. At least Jesus and the apostles performed miracles to back up their claims. I haven't seen that sort of proof from the WTS. I would expect that if Jesus is going to lead an army of angles to kill 6 billion people, that he would at least provide a religion that while not perfect in the sense of not having sin, would at least not teach false dates and flip flop around on theology. Why is that too much to ask?
Did any of the early biblical faiths and leaders show perfection in action and purposeeven though they had direct teachings from God?
I don't recall Moses changing the Law once he delivered it to the Israelites? Where can I find that? Or the apostles changing doctrine? Again, my standard isn't perfection in action since that would be impossible for an imperfect person to acheive. But, if God is giving the information, I would expect that to be accurate information.
Show me a better religion that knows God's purposes better than the Jw's preach and I'll look at it. but I reserve the right to judge it by the bible if it preaches cross, hellfire and trinity it will fall at the first fence for me.
I can't help you there in terms of joining a particular religion. You should judge a religion by its holy book. I don't think anyone here thinks any differently. I grew up a JW, that's pretty much all I know. I haven't studied the details of other religions. What I have concluded is that the WTS is not Gods channel of communication. Perhaps we're still in the "Great Apostacy"? What I try to do is exhibit good towards others. Even though I still go to the meetings, I simply don't believe the JWs are the truth. However, I'm not willing to sacrifice my family so I continue. But, I'm dead according to WTS theology because I don't believe they're Gods channel. So, I'm destined to be destroyed not because I've rejected God, but I've rejected those claiming to speak for Him. Show me a miracle, something, anything to prove that lofty claim.
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OUTLAW
Reniaa..You made a claim.. "I accept the dates because whether right or wrong the holy spirit must have been acting on or around that time for them to have been gifted with so many bible truths"..Now Besty wants you to back your claim up!..Besty asks:"Please post a list of the unique beliefs the WTS was promoting at or around the beginning of the 20th Century (that they still promote today) to justify your claims of holy spirit at that time".....You can`t do that!.....Because..Those gifted truths you speak about,are no longer regarded as true..They were a lie then..They are a lie now..Besty has caught you in more of your dishonesty..There are no beliefs from those days that are still followed..If there are,you can post them for everyone to see..If you can`t,that makes you a Liar!......................................................
You still do not get one point about me..I get you just fine..Your a "Bullsh*t Artist"...............when I look at christianity I look at it as a whole..The WBT$ seperates themselves from the rest of Christianity..............................................I do not look at one faith conclude it is wrong ..You look at 1faith(JW`s) and conclude it is right..No matter how many times it has been wrong!...............then assume all the others are right by default..You asume all others are Wrong by default.................................which for some apparent reason many on here seem to be doing unless they just reject religion as a whole..We have many Christians and people of other Faiths here..Once again,your Dishonesty shows...............................and become athiests having faith in 'Big Bang' instead..More dishonesty..Not every one becomes an athiest,not all athiests believe in the big bang..........................................................., I measure them all by the same rule and test the doctrine they teach by the bible..Athiests don`t believe in the bible,your talking more Bullsh*t...................................., at this time the Jw's are the most doctrinely correct however they got there by whatever route...Prove it..Answer Bestys question..........................................they may yet have things to change..I agree the WBT$ lies will continue....................................and a long way to go constantly fighting the imperfection of men..If you could get the WBT$ to stop lieing that would be a start.....................................and Satan trying to bring in mores lies by other methods..Satan isn`t on JWN to lie,the next best liar we have is you!..LOL!!
I have a choice now which is more than I would have had a couple of hundred years ago and I will choose a faith that has the most biblical truths in my opinion and will help me stop commiting gross sins in Gods eyes...You`ve been caught in a lot of dishonesty on this board..You could start there!..LOL!!
I suppose this all boils down to what you believe and what you want from a religion..You believe: "the holy spirit must have been acting on or around that time for them to have been gifted with so many bible truths"..Those are your words..Now answer Besty`s question and prove it!..
...OUTLAW -
Awakened at Gilead
Outlaw, you are wasting your keystrokes. You will get arthritis before you get Reniaa to understand what we are attempting to communicate to her, lol.
...OUTLAW