I have met several of those people, but the most convincing to me was Joe Dallas.
Born Gay?
by inrainbows 206 Replies latest members adult
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jstalin
People who "relapsed"
- John Paulk, then leader of Focus on the Family'sLove Won Out conference and chairman of the board for Exodus International North America, was photographed in September of 2000 exiting a Washington, D.C. gay bar. [53] This led to Paulk stepping down from the two organizations. [54]
- Michael Johnston, an HIV-positive man who is featured in the film It's Not Gay, promoted by the American Family Association, had frequently been interviewed on U.S. television and radio regarding his claimed change in sexuality, and even featured in a national television advertising campaign in 1998 stating that Jesus Christ empowered him to leave his homosexual past. In 2002, he was exposed as having recently resumed having sex with men, and he admitted to having had unprotected sex with multiple male partners without disclosing his HIV-positive status, despite knowing he that he was HIV-positive, for over a period of two years. [55]
- Exodus International's co-founder Michael Bussee and his partner, a fellow ex-gay counselor, Gary Cooper quit the group and in 1979, held a life commitment ceremony together. Bussee went on to become an outspoken critic of Exodus and the ex-gay movement. [56] He flatly rejects therapies designed to change or "cure" gay people, but recently acknowledged potential for therapy that "does not promise change, but instead offers patients help in managing their desires and modifying their behavior to match their religious values -- even if that means a life of celibacy". [57]
- Colin Cook, founder of Homosexuals Anonymous, was in 1986 discovered to be engaging in sexual acts with his patients. He claimed that the nude massages of other men should desensitize them against homosexual desires. In 1987, he was expelled from Homosexuals Anonymous for sexual activity, and in 1995 a similar scandal happened with his newly founded group FaithQuest Colorado. Cook had engaged in phone sex, practiced long and grinding hugs, and asked patients to bring gay pornography to sessions so that he could help desensitize them against it. [58]
- Christopher Austin was an ex-gay counselor who was sentenced to 10 years in prison in 2007 for sexually assaulting a male client. Austin was affiliated with and gave presentations at NARTH and Evergreen International, which describes him as "a therapist specializing in homosexual and sexual addiction recovery [and] the creator of RENEW, a multi-dimensional treatment approach for men struggling with homosexuality". [59] [60]
- Terrance Lewis was a minister and former counsellor at Providence Bible College in Winnipeg, Canada who was found guilty in February 2008 for sexually assaulting a young man who sought counselling to make him straight. The alleged victim, now 29, told court he started meeting Lewis for counselling sessions in early 2000 after his parents caught him viewing gay pornography on the family computer. The man said Lewis started a program of “touch therapy,” which included the two kissing and fondling each other and engaging in sexual roleplaying. [61] [62]
[edit] People who left the ex-gay movement
- Main article: Ex-ex-gay
The term ex-ex-gay refers to people, once involved with the ex-gay movement, who have ended the attempt to change their orientation, and who now identify as gay or bisexual. The Ex Gay Watch website is a notable resource regarding people who have been involved with the ex-gay movement and later left. Notable people who left the movement include:
- Gary Cooper and Michael Bussee organized the first "ex-gay" networking conference in California, which led to the formation of Exodus International. A few years later Cooper and Bussee admitted they had not changed, but rather had fallen in love with each other. They divorced their wives and held a commitment ceremony. In June 2007 Bussee issued an apology for his part in the ex-gay movement.
- Günter Baum originally founded an ex-gay ministry in Germany. Ultimately, he formed another ministry, Zwischenraum, which helps gay Christians to accept their sexuality and to reconcile it with their beliefs.
- Peterson Toscano is an actor who was involved in the ex-gay movement for 17 years. He performs a related one-man satire titled Doin' Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House, and with Christine Bakke co-runs a support website for people coming out of ex-gay experiences; Beyond Ex-Gay.
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BurnTheShips
All your post demonstrates jstalin, is that some cannot or do not change. But apparently some do.
To use a poor analogy, some people are able to leave their substance abuse, some never do.
That some relapse does not mean it is not possible.
BTS
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BurnTheShips
Lol.... are you kidding me? They all run or are part of religious organizations that have a vested interest in "proving" that homosexuality cannot possibly be innate, because if that were so, "god' screwed up and they would have a lot of explaining to do.
That's like saying AA has a vested interest in curing alcoholics.
Some people apparently have changed, that is all I am saying. It seems to me that you have a vested interest or agenda of some sort to prove that it is impossible. It is obviously not impossible.
BTS
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jstalin
That some relapse does not mean it is not possible.
I'll grant that anything is possible. The range of human psychology and behavior is so vast and wide that it's not possible to completely unequivocally say that no one has changed their orientation. However, the "ex-gay" industry is a hateful and destructive movement. There is no evidence that it does indeed work. The only available evidence on their side is anecdotal.
The ex-gay nuts essentially start out by saying to people "you are wrong and you need to change." The begin by telling people that they are unacceptable to god and that if they don't change, they will suffer eternal damnation. This is wrong and evil. I've seen and personally experienced what happens when someone tries to suppress their true feelings and engages in self-loathing because of what others around them are telling they should be. I don't think the true social and psychological damage this causes has been explored.
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Junction-Guy
I went to an Exodus conference, and from what I saw, it was totally different than what the media portrays it to be.
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jstalin
That's like saying AA has a vested interest in curing alcoholics.
Alcoholism is a destructive behavior. I've known alcoholics who ruined their lives, their health, and their families because of alcohol. People go to AA because they recognize they have a problem that is negatively effecting their lives or those around them. People don't go to AA simply because they are told that drinking is demonic and that they will rot in hell if they don't stop.
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Junction-Guy
From what I gathered alot of people at the Exodus conference were there for those same reasons you listed for AA.
There was quite a bit of religious diversity represented at the Exodus conference. Not everyone there was Baptist, and most of the Baptists there were probably a little less conservative than what I am used to. There was even an Episcopalian there, and maybe a Jew if I remember correctly.
There was no fire and brimstone at that conference, but alot of loving,caring people, -
jstalin
There was no fire and brimstone at that conference, but alot of loving,caring people,
Kinda sounds like the traditional "love bomb."
Why did you go, JG?
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BurnTheShips
Kinda sounds like the traditional "love bomb."
So if they are fire and brimstone and damning homos to hell from the pulpit they are "bad".
But, if they are the opposite--caring and loving--then they are "bad".
I guess no matter what they do, they are automatically "bad".
BTS