A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BurnTheShips

    Sylvia, I'm not trying to offend you. This is nothing personal. It is just a discussion. Don't take my words to be directed at you as though I find you lacking in some way. Far from it.

    I'm challenging what you say--apart from who you are.


    Now, as to your above response.

    You do realize you are asserting something here. You are making a definitive statement and saying, in effect, "My statement is based on nothing!"

    I find that extraordinary. Why don't you?

    Love has no basis? Love has no object? Love has no reasons?

    Wouldn't that mean Love has no merit either?

    When you say "It simply is ." Simply is what ? An empty statement with nothing behind it?

    You see the problem here?

    Would you accept a paycheck without money to back it up? Your employer could say to you, "But, I gave you your paycheck!" And you'd reply, "But, I can't spend it--there is nothing to back it up!!" And your employer would reply with a huge smile, "Your paycheck doesn't need a basis in cash---it simply is!"

    See how uncomfortable and useless this would be?

    For anything to exist at all it has to be something . That something must possess an identity . Identity comes from the actuality of what that something is made of apart from what it isn't made of . Otherwise, everything is everything and everything can also be nothing!

    It all comes apart unravelling quickly if you don't make things accountable to proof, evidence, definition and substantial demonstration of existence. That is what information is all about, connecting what is with reports of it in detail.

    Otherwise, we are all walking around writing checks to each other on credit without a cent in the bank to back it all up.

    You simply must understand that LOVE is from what is valued. Hate is from what has no value . Love is an involuntary emotional response to encountering our strongest values. Hate is an involuntary emotional response to seeing what we most value threatened, harmed or destroyed.

    Nothing simply IS apart from value.


    You might want to review Perry's use of Tautology and ask yourself if you really want to go fishing in his boat!

    Terry, I work in IT. I do a lot of networking.

    What you have here is what we call a "routing loop".

    Once wonders what your TTL is.

    Some things simply are.

    Easy to understand if you ask me. Stunningly simple.


  • R.Crusoe

    [quote=Terrry]What can you be thinking?!![/quote]

    I partly understand your perspective Terry !

    Maybe one which embraces the reality of the society you are in and how it strives to deem imperfect justice essential for its administration?

    All are not born equal! So the reference point does not exist as to what each soul has burdened upon it both visibly and invisibly!

    My points are not ones seeking solutions! Simply raising awarenesses that many end in the gutter for all manner of reasons!

    I respect your seemed intolerance of ones actively pursuing harm and personal gain from clear enslavement of others, etc. but as we know, it is easy to be branded a criminal, weak, irresponsible or whatever based upon any range of errors many humans make in the course of their lives - with the usual absence of all they may have stiven to uphold and achieve in their hearts in ways personal to them and likely never voiced!

    So that's what I was thinking!

    The hidden voice in the oppressed and broken and rejected souls often by those in more advantaged positions.

    But I sense you and I are, in some ways, poles apart in aspects of how we think - I'm not sure what to make of it at present - que sera!

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    This thread has evolved it self into the most engaging and interesting discussion on human psychology revolving around religious faith that I've ever read particular

    at least in this forum, thanks to all.

    Now I wonder who is going to come out the victor ?

    Is it the critically scrutinizing thinking folks or is it the boxed upped lazy minded non analytical ones

    I hope its the thinking ones

  • Sirona

    Interesting thread.

    The only thing that upsets me is that it seems that people can't have a debate without being totally condescending to others.

    This was totally unnecessary:

    I'd cut and past the definition here in a little box, but, I'd like for you to go look it up by doing a search. That way, when you find out you'll have earned the information which will follow.

    Terry, you'll find people want to read your comments and respond to you if you offer some respect rather than speaking to people like they are little children.


  • BurnTheShips
    Terry, you'll find people want to read your comments and respond to you if you offer some respect rather than speaking to people like they are little children.

    I know you are right Siro, but darn he had it coming......


  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    To Perry, I like to fish, but after I hook one I always let them go so they can continue on living, maybe if you were to shake your head enough

    you can loosen out that hook that is in your mouth, try it

  • oompa

    Hey Terry, I gave a STUNNINGLY simiple answer to your question.......no reply..........oompa

  • lalliv01

    A very interesting thread. Sadly, to me, so anticlimatic. I've been reading and reading hoping to see a truly convincing answer to the question posed in this thread, so far, none. I read an article, some time back, which stated that when newspapers receive a lot of mail, feedback, concerning an article written in that paper's 'op-ed' section, that makes them very happy and they consider it a sucess, no matter whether the feedback is pro or con. Even when people write in to say how unhappy they are with the opinion stated in said article and that they are going to cancel their subscriptions to that newspaper. They have succeeded in stimulating people, and that's what they (newspaper and author) wanted. In this, TERRY, I would say you have succeeded.

    Now, my attempt to answer the question posted on this thread. I would say God cared. He cared, maybe, in the same way a soldier cares about an enemy soldier he has just shot trying to kill that soldier that is now a wounded soldier. He just tried to kill that enemy soldier, now he is concerned in trying to save that same soldiers life. Why? Because he is now concerned, interested in that person's condition in the same way hospital workers are concerned with the state of infirm people coming into their sphere of influence. Why? It would immoral not to care, to not be concerned with those in need.


  • Perry
    The way a person becomes an individual is by not letting anything into their core beliefs that hasn't passed the skeptical sniff test.

    Terry, Terry,

    Are we talking about the sniff test that you failed when you answered the question: "Why does a compassionate judge, show compassion"? Did I not demonstrate clearly that your answer was totally inadequate? Or, shall I repeat the sniff test that I applied to it? You did not respond to my sniff test, but ignored it because I PROVED that you hadn't a clue as to what you were talking about. Go back and re-read that. It's just a few posts back.

    Your answer was completely predictable to anyone who has talked to an atheist and looked at how their mind works, or doesn't work. The atheist believes there is no all-knowing God. However, to be able for this to pass a sniff test, he himself would have to know all things so as to be able to prove this. Thus, ironically the atheist believes himself to be the very thing that he says doesn't exist! When an atheist looks into the face of God, he sees only himself. Your isolation is as secure as a maximum security prison.

    Further, the atheist believes he knows what is provable to all other people, even though he is not all people. Some even go as far as you did in your statement above when in your sole judgment a person can't even be an "individual" unless he passes your "loaded" sniff tests. Your arrogance is breath-taking.

    Either God is the source of logic (THE LOGOS) or He plays deuces wild.
    Rom 1:28
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    What is more convenient? To assume that you could know all of the possible compassionate judges and all of their possible reasons for being compassionate like you implied that you did when you answered the question: Why do compassionate judges show compassion? Or,:

    to "know" that compassionate judges sometimes show compassion because they are compassionate?

    Terry, what you have can't be fixed. It is a divine blindness. It may be permanent. You are lost in a reprobate mind.

    I'd have more respect for your position if you came out and said that.
    "God can do anything He wants for any reason anytime He feels like it and it doesn't have to be consistent."

    Terry.... Like all reprobates, it is your destiny to twist God into a reflection of yourself. When a reprobate looks at God... he sees only himself. This is the vanity that our race was subjected to in Rom. 8:20.(KJV) You display this characteristic above. You are a perfect reflection of yourself.

    The conclusion that you refer to, that most everyone got except for you, wasn't that God is somehow inconsistent with his own laws like you are with your own personal virtues. No, rather, the conclusion was that a compassionate judge has the ability and the perrogative to show compassion anytime he wants to on condemned criminals, because he is a compassionate judge.

    Did you know that our own President has unlimited powers of pardon? He can pardon anyone, at anytime and doesn't have to say squat to anyone. I don't see you lobbying to have this "inconsistency" removed from our government. I do see you feeblishly squawking at God about his unlimited powers though. It is quite amusing to believers..... even entertaining.

  • myelaine

    dear perry...

    ...look at Jude 9. anyway...

    " It is quite amusing to believers..... even entertaining. "...

    really?...how many people are standing behind you laughing at Terry...only the ones that beat their slaves I'd say.

    love michelle

    p.s. love you too Moses

Share this