A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry

    On what basis did GOD SO LOVE the world?

    The world of mankind had been condemned to death by God's curse in Eden!

    God viewed mankind as "dust on the scales". God poured out plagues and curses and even drowned the human race in a flood because they did not meet his standards.

    On what BASIS did God so Love the world?

    On what values contained by man, the sinner?

    What possibly JUST cause is there for God to LOVE what is repugnant to him?

    The scripture in JOHN 3:16 is the most famous and frequently used boiler plate advertisement for Christianity. But, IT MAKES NO SENSE!

    Think about this for a moment.

    If man has so little merit that one infraction in Eden can condemn AS YET UNBORN humans to suffer and die as sinners---WHAT HAD CHANGED about the human condition by the time Jesus arrived?

    Either man is worthy of death or man is not.

    Man has value or is valueless.

    For God to view mankind as wicked, sinful, imperfect and dying INDICATES GOD'S VALUATION system.

    Yet, this selfsame God supposedly set aside his own value system in order to LOVE the world of mankind. HOW SO?

    Please don't throw the word "mercy" out here and expect it to answer this question. It doesn't.

    Do you know why?

    There is no rational or just basis for the "love" of man or the "mercy". All men are sinners and the wages of sin are death. THIS IS GOD'S VALUE SYSTEM at work from beginning to end!

    Even God can't contradict his own values!!

    In a court of law the only mercy from a judge or jury comes from EXTENUATING circumstances such as lack of intent to commit harm or accidental homicide or mental illness.

    The same conditions which appear to condem man in the case of Noah's day apply in Jesus' day.

    There is a quirk here. There is an illogic. There is a gaping hole you can fly a Boeing through.

    I ask again. ON WHAT BASIS can God be said to "LOVE THE WORLD" ?

    If mankind was "guilty" and worthy of death, then, JUSTICE requires the guilty to pay for their own crimes.

    It is the opposite of JUSTICE to let the guilty off and punish the INNOCENT.

    This would be a kangaroo court at work and a rigged jury. It would be a travesty of justice.

    Yet, this is EXACTLY how God's values appear to work in Salvation!!

    Man is the sinner and does NOT pay.

    Jesus is perfect and sinless and DOES pay.

    JUSTICE? How?

    LOVE? On what basis?

  • BabaYaga

    Completely agree.


    Jehovah set a "trap" for his new, innocent, naive creatures.

    They failed the test and fell into his trap, as expected.

    He banishes them and curses them and all of their offspring (i.e. everyone who will live) from that point forward to time immemorial. (Wow... would you condemn your two-year old to death the very first time he transgressed... or would you take him aside and try to TEACH him?)

    He demands live, blood sacrifices for the curse he has placed on his "children".

    He demands the life of another child, a perfect one this time, to end all the other blood sacrifices which he has been demanding for the curse that he placed on the children he tricked.

    ...did I miss anything here?

  • dinah

    Terry, that's the question that has rolled around in my head for years.

    Everytime I hear "for God so loved the world" I'm thinking, He's got a funny way of showing it. Yes Christ was killed, but all of humanity has suffered. If God was so mad about the earth being filled with violence........where is He now?

    Also, I can't reconcile the old testament "father, to the new testament "son". They seem to be polar opposites. One loves to kill, the other is more benevolent.

  • BabaYaga

    Dinah, you might enjoy reading "Jehovah Unmasked" by Nathaniel Merritt... he used to post here several years ago.

    Oh, and Terry, let's admit it... that was not a "stunningly simple question" at all! Ha!!!

  • daniel-p

    Terry, I think you've helped me to finally realize why, for all these years, "the ransom" made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. No matter how many times I heard it explained--and even explained it to others from the platform--I still could never make the connection. There is no logic to it.

  • BizzyBee

    Possibly, just possibly.................God did not write the Bible?

  • BreakingAway

    I agree with what you've said Terry and to be honest this question has plagued me for quite some time, including when I was a Witness.I gave talks as an elder that sought to justify his "allowance" of such cruelty that would never be tolerated by "sinful" humans.

    We were always taught that it's all wrapped up in the issue of 'Universal Sovereignty' but if all of this is true then we're nothing more than a bunch of pawns in some galactic chess match ! People say it HAS to play out this way to answer the question once for all eternity, both for humans and angels, but I disagree.Here's why I think it could have been done differently:

    At the time Adam and Eve sinned God could have gathered all of the heavenly creatures together and then peered into the future and put it on display as to how things would play out ! (Like some giant big screen tv-didn't Satan take Jesus to a high mountain and show him all of the kingdoms ?)God supposedly gave men like John and others visions of the future (like Revelation) didn't he ? So...he could have said to all of the angels: "Here you see man's future.This is what has become of man when he no longer follows me.See all of the suffering ? See how all of their governments, technology, philosophy,etc. has failed to satisfy man's needs ? See the effects from the lack of guidance ? Of leaving me and abandoning my ways ? You can clearly see that if I allow all of this to play out then all the creatures of the earth will suffer terribly.Therefore, it is in man's best interest that I destroy these two human rebels and all rebellious angels."

    Since it's "impossible for God to lie", then no one could accuse Him of making some "false vision" to justify his actions.He would have answered the questions without actually letting them take place, without the actual suffering.

    God told Adam that he would die.He did NOT say:"You will condemn all future generations and the creatures of the earth to a life suffering if you disobey me".

    This is why I no longer believe in god.He's the most loving, kind, and intelligent being in the entire UNIVERSE and this is what he comes up with ? Something is seriously missing from the big picture.

  • real one
    real one

    God does love the world. He created it. The purpose of mankind is to worship God. Jehovah God. No other god. When God asks us to do something he expects us to obey him.OBEY, this is becoming my favorite word to use in connection to God. Mankind is full of sin. this is evident in the garden of eden. Any one of us would probably have made the same mistake those two made. throughout mankinds history they have chosen to disobey God. Not only mankind look at the Devil. We should all be walking on eggshells had it not been for God allowing Christ to givie us another chance for everlasting life. do i understand how God could possibly love us? No! do i understand why Christ died on the cross? No! its just like when someone tells you a principle or a concept and at first you dont understand. later on you might get understanding about why something is so but at first you dont understand. this has happened to me a lot of times when it comes to obeying God. i knew the law but chose to do what i wanted. horrible results. results that to thid day i have to live with. no party here.

    we talk about the worlds disasters and why this why that. God knows what he is doing,we have to trust him. we all have questions but he has the answers when we dont. no one will know all about God and his plans. Jesus even agreed to this. we just have to be patient stay in prayer and wait on the Lord. we also must not be selfish and have a lot of pride in ourselves. Christians are suppose to put God first in their lives. a concept i was not able to master until oct 2007. didnt really understand it until then. wasnt capable of doing it bymyself. i need God to help me in every aspect of my life.

    once you realize you need him and he does not need you you are well on your way. we live to do his will not our own. I look at Satan again and continue to wonder why he fell.

  • Satanus

    Perry will explain it w simple logic.


  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Since God was created in the imagination of the human mind, he can be either loving or hateful, therefore anything is possible.

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