by svennibenni 93 Replies latest social relationships
Yikes, jgnat, I'm sorry that you had to hear him say that. However, I have to agree w/ him.
Dude, if you are questioning a realtionship w/ her, then that says a lot right there. If you are to the point that you want to marry someone, you shouldn't have to ask strangers what the hell they think about it. Do you not find that insane?
I think sven wants advice on how to convert the girl. It's amazing how many people want what they want when they want it. They don't want to hear about consequences.
He is singularly uprepared for the consequences.
As for going to the elders, that's horrible advice. The elders do nothing but interfere and lay guilt. I can't think of a single positive influence they have been in my or my husband's relationship.
I am feeling my age here, but I think she's too young for all this romantic pressure and religious pressure at the same time. If sven really loves her, he will back off right now and be more of a friend. I almost feel like he is trying to replace her devotion to religion with himself, which just reads weird too me. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but she's only 20 years old, coming to terms with herself and a lot of things. It could end well or it could end very bad for this young lady and I just felt I needed to say that because I am hoping things don't go the latter.
Jgnat, I wasn't suggesting that the elders could be a help to her, I was suggesting that their marriage would be miserable. I've been in a miserable marriage before and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Becoming a JW seems to me the only "reasonible" way.
There is no “reasonable” with the jws. Are you aware they have “practice sessions” at their meetings where they rehearse how to overcome people’s objections. They are smooth talkers. Their first love is the book publishing society, which they call “the bible.”
She told me that it's over OK, but now she is more passionate than ever in our calls. Still she tells me that she has her principles and doubts BUT she calls me every now and then - at least 5 times a day on my mobile. She doesnt care of how much money it costs - even if I have to work she rather stays on the phone just to listen to me and telling me that she doesnt want to miss me every single minute.
Your lady friend sounds like she has a co-dependent, addictive personality. Sorry, but no normal person phones someone five times a day. She is doing emotional flip-flops. She does not sound “reasonable” to me. She sounds brainwashed and confused. She can not know herself because she only sees herself as the religion sees her. She speaks their language because she is “brainwashed” --- do you know how to heal her brainwashed state? If you were to suggest she go for counseling sessions with a psychiatrist trained in combating cult behavior, would she be willing to go? Is she willing to change? You cannot change her---please don’t think its okay to try. You are too emotionally involved to think reasonably or rationally. Think how hard it is to change one thing about your Self --- how to you expect to change someone else who sees no reason to change? Her only wish is to change you.
Jws don’t celebrate birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Halloween, or any other holiday. Will you be happy to never put up a tree again? Never buy or receive a Christmas present? Never enjoy a piece of birthday cake at work?
Are you prepared to go door-to-door and perpetuate and spread their beliefs? How true would you be to yourself if you became a jw? Is that really loving your Self? Is the jw belief system in your core?
Vitty wrote:
I think she is also in a terrible dilemma, her natural self wants you, wants to be with you and wants to have a normal relationship with you. Her cult self is terrified of doing what is wrong and dying at armageddon, losing face, losing her family.
True words, her natural self wants you, but her cult self will sabotage her natural self. Her terror will get her into trouble.
I was born and raised as a jw. I married outside the jw religion and spent the entire marriage wishing and praying my husband (at the time) was in. I divorced from a very unhappy marriage in 1997. I finally left the religion in 1999 --- being disfellowshipped because I started ballroom dancing, took a dance partner, and had an affair. I have two children who will not speak with me now, because I left. I have never seen my grand child --- the one I know exists. There may be more, but I do not know of them. They have absolutely no association with me. The elders have told my children that I am no longer the same mother who bore them and raised them, because I have been taken over by the devil. I am now “demonized” --- a stranger. They treat me as dead. This will happen to your lady friend if she tells anyone she has gotten involved with a “worldly” man. She may tell the elders, just out of guilt. All it takes is one “fishing” talk where elders go asking members involved in “secret sin” to come forward and confess.
I am not with the partner any more, but my kids don’t know that. They only look at my “sin”, with no thought of forgiveness, unless I went back to the elders and worked my way back into the “fold.” But I know too much now. I spent 10 years with a therapist who knows about cult thinking. Somewhere during my therapy I decided the only way for me to leave the religion --- and survive --- was to purge every shred of the old belief system from my Self --- and replace it with something healthy. I would have killed myself if it were not for my therapy.
Do you think you could live with a woman who is totally brainwashed? Do you think you could live with someone who thinks you are of the Devil if you did not convert?
I’m curious about what happens to the people who post here, wondering if they could make a go of a relationship with a jw. We get lots of threads like this, but often we don’t hear from the writers again. Perhaps it is a soul thing they must do. No one here would stand in your way, if you decided you must be with this woman. Be warned, you will not have a happy life --- guaranteed! Once your initial “romance” phase is over --- you will be miserable --- and trapped.
Keep us posted, okay?
ESTEE
Why is the possibility of a non-JW marrying a JW still even being discussed here? The idea is insane, and doing so would be begging to have the religion mess both their lives. Many here have already laid it out - unless the girl decides (in her own time) to stop living as a JW for good, there's no point in them taking things any further.
I think sven wants advice on how to convert the girl. It's amazing how many people want what they want when they want it. They don't want to hear about consequences. He is singularly uprepared for the consequences.
And yet you seriously pose the possibility of him whisking her off to marry her in the hope that it will just somehow work out. Hello?
I am feeling my age here, but I think she's too young for all this romantic pressure and religious pressure at the same time. If sven really loves her, he will back off right now and be more of a friend.
Agreed.
Anyone who contemplates this kind of an uneven "union" really needs to talk to a professional before taking any steps. Put your hear aside, dear one. Start with a visit to your family doctor.
ESTEE
Hi Folks,
wow I just came back and see lots of posts. I cannot answer all of them right now, but I will.
things have turned a bit as I KNEW after posting last time. It was kind of a shock. For both of us. I knew this shouldnt have happened. I'm obiously not as strong as I thought.
Let me tell you what happened today. We went to a meeting of JW and I behave myself very very polite and didnt sit near her or ever looked at her. I talked to some JW who asked me this and that. So I followed the sermon and shook a lot of hands. After we left (she and I told them I was a collegue and she is going to drive me to the airport) the climate was quite cool. When I asked her she wouldnt respond at once. Then she got a call from a sister, who had some thoughts maybe and we went to a luch with her. We talked and after that she was driving me to the airport. On the say we stopped and had a walk in the park and we had finally a conversation. As some of you already assumed, she doesnt want this to happen again and therefor asked that it would be better not to meet secretly anymore. At first I thought she wanted to quit, but she quickly said, she doesnt want to quit. She is full of guilt I know. this was a day of trouble until we reached the airport. I asked if she is going to tell somebody(elders) and she denied it.at once. We talked and talked again and always reaching the point of me not being a JW... then we kissed the last 5 minutes and she drove away. 30 min later she sent an SMS telling me that she feels sorry that she hurts me that much and that she is always thinking of me. When I arrived in my country I gave her a call that I arrived safely and she didnt want this call to end. (mobile to mobile in diff countries....) we talked around 30 min and afterwards she sent another SMS telling me she is so happy when she hears me laugh. I shall feel hugged and kissed. We agreed to watch a movie via internet together tonight
I NEED HELP HERE
I have a bible lesson tonight and after that I want to start asking her a single question that she cannot answer or has some trouble with. Is that wise or what should I do first. I need facts and I need answers. I know you dont know me and I am/sound selfish and am weak and and and BUT please HELP. many many thanks to all you folks you already were an inspriration to me (even if I messed it up - sorry)
These are very mixed signals. You don't sit together, but she's driving you to the airport
because you are a colleague. You both went to a lunch with some other sister.
I don't know what your question is, but feel free to ask it.
My concern is that she might continue to go back and forth with her guilt.
If you both really love each other enough to be committed to each other,
work past that guilt before it gets to her. In my opinion, if you are ready for the
heartache of trying to help her out of the JW's but might not succeed, then tell
her to marry you right away. Tell her you love her and want to have relations
with her, but don't want her feeling guilty. They cannot DF her for marrying.
You can accompany her to the hall, sit next to her, or not go. But don't get
baptized.
Hi Wanderlustguy and all the others,
sure I cannot be objective - i know this is just not possible, I know that many reasons you say are or at least sound true.
When we talked - and be SURE that we talk straight forward ! I remembered the story ot her brother and had her promise me that she will NOT ever even think of suicide or whatsoever. Then she turned her head to me and asked ME the very same thing. She knows that her ways are very hard for me as well. And we agreed. Also we agreed that we will be pulling on the same string in order to help us reaching our goal (where she still thinks that part of coming together is me becoming a JW)
Please forgive me - my motives are not always as pure as they should be - I KNOW that and I dont like it either
