How is it possible that such an organisation that brainwashes the mind of members so entirely is still allowed and not be punished after all ? I heard lots of things and read quite a bid. But the way you all tell things speaks for itself. How could you have escaped from that cage? It is soooo bitter. How can people still think it is right what they do when they could see - if they wanted to - how things turn out for several members (=victims)
It's not brainwashing exactly, but thought and information control. The religion can work quite nicely for people when they believe in it and many are obviously happy where they are, but when the ignorance is reduced things tend to get messy. When people are in, every bad practice has a justification and basic human instinct and tendencies are repressed.
Do you think it matters how old she is ? Is there any progression or could one stop it if it is "in time" ?
I guess the longer a mind has been subjected to delusion, the harder it is. But there are plenty of people here who weren't spring chickens when they escaped from the cage. How old is she?
We just had a phone call and although she seems to be passionate she tears down walls all the time... when you said no holidays.... we have been talking about where we go first and what places she wants to visit and so on.
If someone said Jehovah's Witnesses don't have holidays, in general that's not true.
She told me that it's over OK, but now she is more passionate than ever in our calls. Still she tells me that she has her principles and doubts BUT she calls me every now and then - at least 5 times a day on my mobile. She doesnt care of how much money it costs - even if I have to work she rather stays on the phone just to listen to me and telling me that she doesnt want to miss me every single minute. Her preparings for the meetings just take a tiny second compared to what time we spend together. Maybe this is already a sign that SHE wants to get out of that ???
I wouldn't want to be responsible for unduly getting your hopes up, Sven, but it does sound very positive. If she was doing what a strong JW should do, she would have restricted communication with you to business only. It seems like she's very emotionally involved.
And YES she is worth all I can give her.
There are good reasons why people here are warning you. If you decide to spend yourself on this and her, go into it with the knowledge that she may fail to free herself. Think again about how intellectually honest she is, and whether she has the personal integrity to do what is a very hard thing for her.
See I learned the old greek and can translate the original scriptures and therefor can point at every single "lie".
Okay, that's great. Just remember to go slow with her. Do not frighten her away. Go. Slow.
The point of parting, all or nothing.. has its point as well, on the other hand if I told her I would be happy to lend a hand and to explain what I found out.. HELP her... sounds also good to me.
Remember, explaining may not be possible. At least to start with, your aim is to get her to allow herself to be objective.
And what you say about her feelings... there I am absolutely sure that she NEVER ever told anyone a bit of her feelings but me. See it took months to get her out of the corner and reveal VERY personal secrets to me.
If she trusts you with important, personal things, that's great.
It is unbelievable because EVERY SINGLE LINE you wrote makes perfect sense to me and I believe she will ask for the references which have been misquoted for herself if I will pursue the way you stated !!!
Your situation is very, very similar to that of the special person that was my catalyst. There are significant differences, but we had a level of trust that I couldn't ignore. Maybe I have a more positive view of these situations than many here because I was personally able to get over the fallacies. Many don't.
She will also consider what she will loose and what she will gain at some point... and she will loose everything but me.
You show some good insight into her position. If she ever seriously researches, the more she realises there's little truth in the religion the more she will see how perversely grotesque is her situation. Her world will turn from soft cotton wool to a choking nightmare. The people around her may inflict pain in ways they cannot comprehend, whether or not she is ever disfellowshipped. She will need someone.
I now think there is a chance for her as she probably went over lots of other barriers which I just didnt realize were there.
Yes, she has. But it's only a chance.
And isnt love the best motivator there is ?
There's a saying that I apply to myself: love will get you in the end.
So I am very mean to wait til she has so much trust in me that I am able to destroy her world..... Isnt that at least as terrible... ?
I am very pleased that you recognise just how big this is to her. But there is never any justification for cults. As humanity gradually rids itself of beliefs that are untrue, more and more people will get hurt. It's not your fault. You have to do what you think is right for you both.
And I assure you, despite my fears I will never wish that my special someone had given up on me - whatever any JW does.
Keep posting and we'll do our best to help you.
