Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday 254 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Again, it all boils down to the ideals and values that you yourself hold dear - how you would wish to be treated and how you treat others, how you view your society, your country and it's people collectively and how or what you are willing to do for it's health and prosperity. There are those that live by the word 'me' and others who prefer to work toward 'we'.

    Let's not confuse a social program with pure socialism and lets not link socialism to communism. The USA is for the most part both socialist and capitalist. Capitalism is without a doubt a cause of the cycle of poverty since it requires a substantial number of poor who will work for a business or corporation at the lowest rate possible, in order to achieve maximum profit at the top. The lower the rate of pay, the greater the profit and while a corporation should be entitled to a fair and equitable profit, the balance of what is fair and equitable becomes lost when that profit, fed by an elitist sense of entitlement and greed, exceed the norm by 500% and is paid to the CEO who just laid off half the company workforce, in the form of a bonus of $12 billion. I see nothing fair and equitable about that. When some major airline filed bankruptcy, the guys at the top lost nothing but the pension that the employee had paid into for years, was lost, leaving the majority with no savings in retirement. The law clearly penalizes those at the bottom and favours those at the top.

    We can scream about entitlement or welfare - but in reality the amount of corporate welfare, in the form of tax breaks, far exceeds much of money we put into social programs for the needy. Bank of America is taking over Countrywide Mortgage. They will take the losses Countrywide has and then write those losses off as tax credits of about 270 million - and it's the taxpayer that will eventually foot that bill. If the USA were truly a well fed deregulated, capitalist, free market society, then the government should not have funnelled billions upon billions of dollars into that system and instead, losses should have been incurred by all who invested. This would have allowed the market to stabalize on it's own. We scream at those using social welfare but when we see our monetary investments losing ground, we most certainly hold out our hand for corporate welfare aka. government money, to fix the problem. In the end, everyone ends up paying. The money that the government paid to keep the banks solvent, to keep we, the investors happy, might just be paid back by that kid whose mother was on welfare at one time. Full circle.

    I believe that a great society is one where we all contribute for the greatest good. Business and people alike. A society where we all contribute to ensure that our elderly, children and disabled are cared for and we all strive to end poverty in the wealthiest countries. We can do this by making sure that health care is universal, where education is affordable and mandatory, where we provide a liveable wage for people and not a substandard allottment initiated 30 years ago when costs were 500 times less than they are now. We should make people accountable and obligated for the children they bear and set standards with reasonable objectives within our social assistance programs, so that nobody sees their circumstance as endless but instead are motivated by ability.

    I heard someone just lately, refer to a family they know as 'white trash'. When a society engages in labelling their own citizens as garbage, one can only assume that they have successfully beaten those same pieces of garbage so far down in the landfill, that it may take them years to ever get out - if they ever do. Sometimes people don't have even a bootstrap to use to pull themselves up with..sammieswife.

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    HS, Oh how you waste your time, but it is entertaining. So many proletarians who serve wine for the elite and sing to the band on the Haliburton/Walmart Titanic. Journey-on and others Is it possible, that capitalism has limits and faults that need to be addressed, or is it perfect as it is? If it is perfect, why do we already have Social Security into which you pay? Steve Not quite sure I understand your point in the above statement to HS. Your comment to Journey-on touches on the real key word here - Perfection. It doesn't exist in human enterprises and never will. No matter how successful a government is it is never perfect. But the fact is more people want to immigrate to the US than any other country in the world. Being successful means you will always have resentful enemies and critics. People like Simon and HS seem to have developed a deep dislike of this country. It's no skin off my nose.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Gregor,

    the fact is more people want to immigrate to the US than any other country in the world. Being successful means you will always have resentful enemies and critics. People like Simon and HS seem to have developed a deep dislike of this country.

    While you point out my emphasis that capitalism may not be perfect, let me point out a key word in your response: "successful".

    What is this success you point out as the merit of capitalism? The indicator of success you suggest is that others want to immigrate to the US. Why do they want to immigrate? I suspect we can agree it is not because they have made a rational investigation of political/economic systems and choose ours. Do you not agree most who 'want to immigrate' feel a bit disadvantaged and want a piece of the pie? Does this make ours the best system? Simply being the object of desire does not make us the best, anymore than being the hottest soccer mom in the neighborhood makes a her the best woman or human. It's flawed reasoning. Perhaps the "critics" are looking at something deeper.

    As for Simon and HS disliking the country, maybe you are taking their ideology personally. I'm inclined to think they are pointing out flaws in ideas and policies of a system rather then dissing the pretty soccer mom that everyone wants.

    I appreciate your response.

    Steve

  • journey-on
    journey-on
    I believe that a great society is one where we all contribute for the greatest good. Business and people alike. A society where we all contribute to ensure that our elderly, children and disabled are cared for and we all strive to end poverty in the wealthiest countries. We can do this by making sure that health care is universal, where education is affordable and mandatory, where we provide a liveable wage for people and not a substandard allottment initiated 30 years ago when costs were 500 times less than they are now. We should make people accountable and obligated for the children they bear and set standards with reasonable objectives within our social assistance programs, so that nobody sees their circumstance as endless but instead are motivated by ability.

    I believe we all want this. It's just the methods most disagree with.

  • 5go
    5go

    SixofNine, Hillary_Step, Sammielee, 5go, PrimateDave --- Throw in all your money together....hell, sell your assets you've worked for, too.....put it all in one big pot and divide it up evenly between yourselves. Would you be happy with that socialist arrangement? I'd bet one or two of you would be thrilled with that. The others just keep working your asses off. There will always be someone that can use your hard earned cash.

    Me? I'm going to keep mine and share it with who I want to share it with. I alread pay too much in taxes, but I still manage to support my favorite charities and give where I choose to give.

    Which will work until one of several possiblities happen. Which already are starting to show there ugly faces in the US.

    One, Desperate for change the people back a dictator that kills you and or takes your wealth and freedom.

    Two, Anarchy who knows where and how it will end.

    Three, Government keeps working but officials are so under paid are bribed easily and your stuff is taken that way. You are left with nothing but you are alive.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    sammielee24 and journeyon,

    I was thinking of complementing Sammie's wife for her commments, when Jouneyon focused on some of which I liked.

    Journeyon

    I believe that a great society is one where we all contribute for the greatest good. Business and people alike. A society where we all contribute to ensure that our elderly, children and disabled are cared for and we all strive to end poverty in the wealthiest countries. We can do this by making sure that health care is universal, where education is affordable and mandatory, where we provide a liveable wage for people and not a substandard allottment initiated 30 years ago when costs were 500 times less than they are now. We should make people accountable and obligated for the children they bear and set standards with reasonable objectives within our social assistance programs, so that nobody sees their circumstance as endless but instead are motivated by ability.

    I believe we all want this. It's just the methods most disagree with.

    A society obbsessed with profits, market economy, is not inclined to produce "methods" that will meet the ideals of sammielee. We have become a society and economic system dominated by corporations and their impersonal objectives (I'm restraining myself). We have a constitution and a democratic/republic that has been the best in history compared to the system from which we emerged. But a society that fails to evolve, looking backward at their success, will fall behind those who use their success as a stepping stone into the future.

    Steve

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    The question that is still relevant "Why are so many trying to get into and live in the USA and so few leaving?

  • journey-on
    journey-on
    Do you not agree most who 'want to immigrate' feel a bit disadvantaged and want a piece of the pie?

    I believe this statement is correct. But, I will add something additional from personal conversations I have heard. This country represents UNLIMITED possibilities. Now, I'm sure other westernized countries believe their oppportunities are just as abundant. Yet, America is actually known worldwide as "the land of opportunity." Ask anybody "what country do you think of when you hear that expression" and America will be their answer.

    We are a capitalist society. That's true. The system is not perfect and I'm sure there are flaws. But we are also generous to a fault, charitable in our giving, and as a nation, our HEART is huge. That is a fact.

    We have a spirit of individualism and a work ethic we can be proud of and in my personal opinion one that can only find full achievement of potential where the possibilites are unlimited...right here in the U.S. of A where capitalism has and does work.

    There are some disadvantaged on the government dole, but they are fed, clothed, and sheltered and offered educational benefits that others would love to have. They are only LIMITED by themselves.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Steve,

    But a society that fails to evolve, looking backward at their success, will fall behind those who use their success as a stepping stone into the future.

    I think you are 100% correct. I also think latin America is passing the US, in this area. I think sheer necessity made it happen because of all the suffering the US has caused it. Too much suffering to ignore caused more people to act.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Look what the capitalist system has bought (yes I know there are one or two disadvantages) - it has bought most of the inventions and modern gadgets and advancements that we have all come to love.

    LIMITLESS POSSIBILITIES - socialism cant offer that

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