Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday 254 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Gregor,

  People like Simon and HS seem to have developed a deep dislike of this country.

  I have never made a secret of the fact that I dislike an ASPECT of the US that has risen to prominence the past few years. This sector of US thinking has its lifeblood invested in ignorance, bigotry, religion and ignorance. Oh, I just said that. ;)

  HS once again gives a clumsy example of disingenuous misdirection in his response.

  Clumsy....hardly. It was your good-self who raised the spectre of the French Revolution and then related how it gave birth to political corruption and then 'withered' (your word, not mine) as a nation, not myself.

  I merely pointed out that you are totally, completely and utterly incorrect in this assessment. France exists as evidence that you are incorrect. Both of us are too long in the tooth for you to pull this one Gregor. Suck it up. Your statement was incorrect, just live with it. :)

  Hello Steve!

  Long time no read. How are you doing?

  As for Simon and HS disliking the country, maybe you are taking their ideology personally. I'm inclined to think they are pointing out flaws in ideas and policies of a system rather then dissing the pretty soccer mom that everyone wants.

  You are correct Steve, but good luck in trying to convince some people that criticism of some parts of a nations government and ideology is not the same a 'deep dislike' of that nation. It has been a battle long fought on this Board to get people to understand this, but it is slow going. My criticisms are no more focused that those of SixOfNine, Flying High etc. etc. etc. etc. - all of whom are Americans!

  Since when, however, did these people ever let logic get in the way of their viewpoints? I wonder how Gregor and his ilk view Americans who criticize the US? As apostates? ;)

  Journey On,

  Hey. I've got an idea.

  Good for you! I am sure Paris Hilton would be interested.

  HS
• 

  5go

  The question that is still relevant "Why are so many trying to get into and live in the USA and so few leaving?

  No the is a fallacy of appealing to the past. There is an increasing amount of Americans leaving. Mainly to the economic and political turmoil that is emerging, and the US inability to deal with admit it much less deal with it. Once that turmoil hits full force you will see less illegals stop bothering with the US and trying harder to get into Canada, and the Europe Union. Also that is a fallacy of localizing a universal problem. Many Turks, Asians, Eastern Europeans, and Northern Africans are trying to get into Europe Union for the same reason the Latin Americans, Asians, and Chinese are trying to get into the US.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Still,

  Look what the capitalist system has bought (yes I know there are one or two disadvantages) - it has bought most of the inventions and modern gadgets and advancements that we have all come to love.

  So you say: 1 or 2 disavantages, and then everything esle that counts is modern inventions? Well your toys are very important to you then, more important than people getting slaughtered for say oil, so you can keep your nice little toys?
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Two, Anarchy who knows where and how it will end.

  I know how it will end. I will get what little stuff you own 5g0. Then I will burn it just for fun. MUHAHAHAHAHA!
• 

  BurnTheShips

  So you say: 1 or 2 disavantages, and then everything esle that counts is modern inventions? Well your toys are very important to you then, more important than people getting slaughtered for say oil, so you can keep your nice little toys?

  They ain't my people. They're just stinky forreners.

  MUHAHAHAHAHA!
• 

  hillary_step

  For those of you who are still clueless as to what practical Socialism has evolved into in the modern age, I have given in to the blight of Wikipedia and posted a link that simply must be read. It explains what Social Democracy is, where it is going and where it has been proven as valid:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

  It is astonishing that when this subject is discussed the spectre of C18th revolutions are raised in order to defeat the ideals of Socialism, when the excesses of capitalism and democracy that date to similar times are ignored with a completeness that stinks of evangelistic zeal.

  As I have noted, political ideologies change and develop. This has happened to ALL ideologies, including the one that presently abides in the US, the UK and some parts of Europe.

  HS
• 

  Gregor

  What is this success you point out as the merit of capitalism?

  Gee, I don't know where to start. How about highest standard of living in the world. Longest average life span, greatest amount of personal freedom and a miniscule fraction who renounce their citizenship, not to mention that our poor are fighting obesity, not starvation, just to mention a few.

  The indicator of success you suggest is that others want to immigrate to the US. Why do they want to immigrate?

  See above.

  I suspect we can agree it is not because they have made a rational investigation of political/economic systems and choose ours.

  You suspect wrong. See above.

  Do you not agree most who 'want to immigrate' feel a bit disadvantaged and want a piece of the pie? Does this make ours the best system? Simply being the object of desire does not make us the best, anymore than being the hottest soccer mom in the neighborhood makes a her the best woman or human. It's flawed reasoning. Perhaps the "critics" are looking at something deeper.

  This statement is so convoluted and trite I don't know what to say. The US as a sexy soccer mom drawing immigrants to their doom? That's just dippy.

  As for Simon and HS disliking the country, maybe you are taking their ideology personally. I'm inclined to think they are pointing out flaws in ideas and policies of a system rather then dissing the pretty soccer mom that everyone wants.

  When someone only focuses on your personal flaws and never has anything nice to say about you would you feel that they dislike you? duh. I repeat, whether they like or dislike this country means less than nothing to me. But it is rather obvious.

  I appreciate your response.
• 

  5go

  So you say: 1 or 2 disavantages, and then everything esle that counts is modern inventions? Well your toys are very important to you then, more important than people getting slaughtered for say oil, so you can keep your nice little toys?

  I find strange how people say capitalism brought us all this neat stuff when we are communicating on one of socialism's greatest achievements the Internet.

  It would be here if a government hadn't required a secure way of communcating with it's self.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  For those of you who are still clueless as to what practical Socialism has evolved into in the modern age

  Envious unproductive havenots.Smelly, hairy, high hippies. Wild-eyed bearded revolutionaries.

  Astute power hungry bastards that use a movement for personal gain.

  Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

  Burn
• 

  frankiespeakin

  5go,

  Two, Anarchy who knows where and how it will end.

  Yes that is a good place to go. Get rid of the State, I think we will evovle in that direction, with all the needed checks and balances even the the "State" may resist enlightenment forces it, because it's monstrosity is seen, as so idiotic, as common knowledge. Anyway that's the way it will go if the human race is to survive.