I'm a Pioneer Married To a Wonderful Brother Reaching Out to be an MS...

by cognac 216 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Quandry

  Wanted to add my welcome.

  Please check out the Freeminds website. Once you look at all the WTS teachings and flip flops on the different doctrines, you will be shocked. I was. Did you know that at one time the WTS said that vaccinations were like taking pus into the body?

  The point is, Witnesses do not know the history of their own organization because it is kept from them. When researching, always look at the latest info, etc. Why? Because it changes so dramatically over time, yet each "new light" is the true way to view the information. Just like all the changes in generation.

  Yes, it will be upsetting. Devastingly so. But as the saying goes, the truth hurts. But isn't it better than being lied to? Stay with us.
• 

  cognac

  Porneia ~ According to the original term it does means technically mean sex outside of marriage but specifically it is in reference to the word whoredom or can be used in regards to prostitution. According to the Mosiac law, if someone actually did have sex with someone else before marriage, they were to pay the father of the woman either 30 or 50 shekels. When the Apostle Paul speaks of it in his letter to the 1 Corinthians 7:36 he states:

  But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

  The NWT is the only translation states it this way:

  But if anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virginity, if that is past the bloom of youth, and this is the way it should take place, let him do what he wants; he does not sin. Let them marry.

  I found (I compared at least 10 bibles as well as looked it up on htmlbible.com) that words it in such a way that it makes it seem as though if a guy has some sort of feeling that he wants to have sex that he should marry. I looked it up in the society's literature and they stated that even though other bibles do seem like it states that it is not a sin, this is not true because there is no original Greek word that means virgin as in meaning a woman, i.e referring to "his virgin" as in meaning he behaved uncomely toward her verses "his virginity". This is not true because the original Greek word for "Virgin" is "parthenos" which means "a maiden; by implication, an unmarried daughter:--virgin". Any scripture that uses that original word is either stating it in a list of things you shouldn't do or is reference to whoredom or prostitution.

  When they use the word "unclean" that is in reference to idol worship.

  When they state 23,000 fornicators and unclean person died in 1 day it is in reference to those practicing idol worship and those who were having sex with people who were not israelites and it doesn't state that they were or had intentions of getting married so it looks like they were just doing it to have fun or something and that was bad in Jehovah's eyes.
• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  welcome cognac..

  it seems that "the nose of the camel is already in your tent...pretty soon you will have the whole camel in there with you." You ever hear that saying before? I will get back to it at the end.

  You have doubts, and it sounds like even your husband has doubts. His comment about if you can find another religion is very telling. You cannot leave a vacuum...even the Society uses a parable in the bible about that.... your husband seems to be unable to leave JWs unless he is going somewhere else. Maybe this is your mindset too.

  Then there is your family. I dont have extensive family in the Borg. Just my JW mom and a couple of cousins.... I was raised in it, baptized in it 24 years.... pioneered, temp bethel, MS, elder...even MTS.... (MTS is nothing but an 8 week indoctrination session...very very very intense..makes Pioneer School look like kindergarten). Yet, despite being very deeply involved at many levels of the Organization, I walked away a few months ago...end of February I will be officially inactive...yayyy....

  ....which reminds me of something OTWO said....even if you start slacking off in the ministry and not making your time quota, the local Service Committee may try to get you to "hang in there"...why? The first year of pioneering is the toughest. If you can get through that first year, then you get to go to Pioneer Service School. 2 weeks of nothing but mind-numbing indoctrination feel-good sessions. I cannot believe I am telling you this...but .whatever you do.....do NOT go to pioneer school....... if you go to PSS...you are setting yourself up to make it even harder to quit pioneering...

  Schools like MTS and PSS are very typical of a cult. I am reading a book by cult expert Steve Hassan right now. You should get it. Those periodic seminars get the pioneers all pumped up...you know the ones...twice a year with the circuit overseer for an hour each time...a little extra attention with the CO's wife......an afternoon in connection with the Circuit Assembly with the CO and DO...the hour with the elders in December.... all designed to give you pioneers a little boost...to encourage you to "stick it out" a little longer..... All of the schools of the Watchtower Society are nothing but indoctrination sessions...

  I know...I went through all of it...even conducted the December pioneer meeting a couple of times.... if you are looking to get out...get out.... wait until August if you must...for reasons you already explained...its understandable... meanwhile....fill the anticipated vacuum... give more attention to the business...more attention to your household...to preparing for a new baby...lots of time for that! LOL.....start laying the foundation for a life post-JW..it will take time....

  If your husband gets to be an MS..it will be even harder for both of you to ever get out... I am not saying sabotage his ability to make MS....but you might emphasize to him the amount of time that will be required of him away from the family once he gets these assignments....more busy work.... does he really want to water down his family time doing busy work? Depending on the size of your congo...count on your husband having a talk or part every week (scheduled or substitute), public talks sooner than later, reading at book study and Watchtower study...maybe conducting if there is a shortage of elders.......taking the lead in the ministry...pressure on him to join you in the regular pioneer work (or at least continuous auxiliary pioneer).... and the fact that you are a young couple, they will want to make you "Stars" in the circuit.... "Shining Examples" of what a young couple can do if they put off having kids and concentrating on Theocratic Organizational pursuits...pushed to the point of exhaustion and burnout....and then pretty soon...you are 40 and wondering like me..."What the hell happened?"

  Is that the life you want to live? Trust me, I am over 40 now..and it is the life I lived from age 17 until age 40...on a never ending treadmill. I gave my youth, stayed single, and what did it get me? Nothing. I am starting over....

  I know this is a long rant....sorry about that...many on here will tell you if you get Snakes started, its hard to stop. I just cannot stand the thought of one more young couple sucked into this routine...

  PM me if you like...your husband too...I will give you my contact info outside of JWD...and you and your hubby can ask me anything...knowing it won't go anywhere....

  SnakesInTheTower (of the "only treadmill I am on is at the gym" Sheep Class)

  PS..oh..the comment about the camel....you have a camel with its nose in your tent:..the Watchtower Society..the tent is the rest of your life...there is not room for a camel in your tent...if you dont push it out now...well...I think you get the picture....no sense in beating a dead horse camel.
• 

  uninformed

  Welcome--

  you wrote the following:

  He agreed with me and was very supportive about it. He said that if I find another religion that teaches the truth that we should go to that one. I told him the problem with that is that I have a HUGE family that is in the truth and do not want to lose them. He said that I shouldn't have to because if I found the real truth that they should be following it. He doesn't think I will find something else that teaches some of the correct main doctrines like Jehovah's name, etc...

  Its the things that can change that really get to me. Why are they so adament about making you believe the things that are clearly people can't be 100% sure of.

  And why do so many disfellowshippings take place on things that the bible does not say you should be disfellowshipped for. Why can't they just deal with it through Jehovah and say a prayer?

  Now, I don't know what to do. It's just everything I ever believed has crumbled right before me and I have not the slightest clue of what to do. I just became a pioneer too.

  I was a 60 year old baptized Witness for 45 years, my wife baptized for 47 years, I had been an elder for over 30 years and pioneerd many years, as well as raised 4 kids to be pioneers and 2 boys to Bethel.

  When we found out about the UN association by the WT, we thought it was still the truth, but that the HQ had made a serious error. I wrote them and literally begged them for help in understanding why they would do such a bad thing. Their response was to sick the body of elders on us and disfellowship us.

  Where in the Bible does it say to disfellowship people who get upset with the religious leaders?

  Now, you and your hubby are at a crossroads, and LUCKY to be there!!!!

  The WT is NOT and NEVER was the TRUTH.

  But, to come to that conclusion, you have to really look into it. What a glorious opportunity you have right now to do that. You are at the right place at the right time.

  One little point with regard to what your husband was using as one of his criteria for determining if something is the 'true religion', and that was the use of the NAME Jehovah.

  You were aware that there is NO RECORD of Jesus using that name?

  Like you, I believe that the name of God is Jehovah, and I too address him that way in prayer. However, Jehovah has placed JESUS CHRIST in charge of the earth and us and our salvation. Therefore, instead of the EMPHASIS being placed on the name JEHOVAH, we really should be focused on the one HE put in charge.

  I hope this helps just a little, and wish you the best on your journey.

  Brant
• 

  Farkel

  cognac,

  Picture yourself as alive and in the presence of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago. Would you feel comfortable in his company? Would you feel welcome there? Would you feel his love? Would you in any way want to be anywhere else other than in the company of the Son of God?

  Now, look at what you said about the environment created by the PEOPLE who CLAIM THEY ONLY represent the spirit and interests of Jesus Christ himself:

  : just avoid getting in huge trouble because a little more careful in:

  :A) Asking elders these questions and careful of which other people I ask these to

  :B) Only asking certain family members because the rest get mad.

  :C) I've now realized my questions can only be about certain questions... For example, I get in a lot of trouble about the blood question.

  Don't you smell a sick Cult here? Would you be so afraid of these things if you were in the company of Jesus?

  Farkel
• 

  AK - Jeff

  I think Cognac will be digesting all of this for a month before she can get off this thread.

  I will say this: I was a robotic Jw for most of my first 48 years. Now, four years after I allowed my brain to work normally, my view of nearly everything is changed. My view of God's name, the world, sex, voting, patriotism, facial hair, rearing children, celebrating holidays, use of blood, religion in general and specifically, death, and life. Nothing will be the same. It takes time to heal - but OH, how refreshing when the mind becomes alive and alert and free of the control that it had been bound under for years or decades. Freedom to think. I can't describe it. Except it is the meaning and purpose of life.

  Take it slow - make a plan - escape in your own way. Freedom is great.

  Jeff
• 

  cognac

  SnakesInTheTower ~ I can't go to pioneer school this year even if I wanted to because they would let me be a pioneer right in September because they didn't think I would make the hours so I don't have to worry about that anyways... I do see what you are saying about my husband becoming an ms... That would definately make things more difficult... I will have to work on that one...

  Uninformed ~ They disfellowshipped you for just questioning them on it? Also, what does Jesus not stating Jehovah's name mean? And how would one put more emphasis on Jesus? We study a lot about him... So, how would you go about putting more emphasis on him?

  Farkel ~ You brought up a very valid point that I didn't really think about... His apostles did ask him a lot of questions...

  AK - Jeff ~ I think you are right.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Just one suggestion - to reduce the overload you must be feeling. Take one point at a time. Make the answer you arrive at your own. Do the work it takes.

  Start with a basic teaching. For instance; Jw's say that only they honor Jehovah, they use his name like no one else does. Type in "Jehovah, God's Name ?" in Google.

  See you in a week.

  Jeff
• 

  WingCommander

  Hello Cognac, and welcome.
  
  First, I'd to answer some of your basic questions. First, the MYTH that JW's are the only ones to teach certain beliefs. LIE. Seventh Day Adventists have very similar beliefs due to branching off from the Millerite movement just as the original Bible Students did. (JW's actually branched off from Bible Students under Rutherford, go figure) Both Pentecostals and SDA's use Jehovah's name when talking about the Father, especially when referring to the Old Testament. Both believe in a state of sleep after death and then a resurrection. Amazing, huh? Look in SDA's especially, as their beliefs to me are easily acceptable. Some call them a cult, I DO NOT. I am not an SDA, but am going to visit one of their churches soon.
  
  Ok...also..the Trinity. Everything you've ever been taught about it is basically a lie by the JW's. I grew up a JW and was always told that Trinitarians believed that Jesus was God. LIE. I have come to find out through talking with Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, etc that this is not so. They believe he is PART of God, or connected to God (think Godhead or Shamrock here) but each part is individual - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - but are connected. This was the toughest concept for me to understand over the past few years, but I think I'm getting it. It's kind of marriage....man are wife are married in unison, become one body as the Bible says. Really? We both know they are two individual people, but here the Bible clearly defines them as being one. Together in unison as one, but still individual. I hope I explained ok.
  
  Anyway.....keep on reading on here. One day I looked on here when I was researching the 1914 doctrine (like you, I never got straight answers) and I haven't stopped reading here yet. That was back in 2000. I'm still here learning more about the religion...err..cult I was raised in.
  
  Regards,
  Wing Commander
• 

  cognac

  You have all given me a lot to think about, however, probably the hardest thing for cutting ties would be the scripture in Matt.24:14...

  You said I could ask anything...

  Did you have a difficult time leaving with that scripture in mind?