In his book "Releasing The Bonds", Steven Hassan refers to cognitive dissonance as a reason that people don't leave cults. Perhaps for some of the more intelligent ones pride is a factor too.
Maddie
by Odrade 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In his book "Releasing The Bonds", Steven Hassan refers to cognitive dissonance as a reason that people don't leave cults. Perhaps for some of the more intelligent ones pride is a factor too.
Maddie
Odrade: Brilliant, thank you.
Haven't been able to spend much time on JWD lately but I enjoyed reading the whole post (clock be damned!).
I like how you made the point that you were keeping integrity with what you feel to be true/actual. Dubs aren't the only principled people out there. Reality will bear out which principles actually do more good. I don't think dubs like looking at the track record.
Thanks for taking the time to post your experience. I'm always looking for things like this to help me with my own potential future conversations. I like to see how people's brains work and the paths they choose to take when discussing these matters with current JW's.
I read it all too! Thank you!
Since I was an elder for a number of years I tried to put myself in the place of this particular man and I can say with confidence that his responses are not the least bit surprising.One big reason is that from the time one is trained to be an elder they are taught to always defend other elders and "the truth".Usually, it's expressed in such terms as:"Don't allow any negative talk".Now, I didn't necessarily agree with such an approach because if one is guilty the burden lies with them and they can defend themselves and if you're not guilty then you usually don't need defending.That doesn't mean we can't stand up for our friends if they're being maligned but writing off legitimate concerns is just plain wrong.
My point here is that this elder was dealing with information overload and went on "autopilot" as it was the most comfortable and familiar thing to do.However, that doesn't mean he won't seriously consider the things that have been said to him.The seeds have been planted.I know there were times when the friends would mention something to me about another elder or some belief and while I tried to explain it I also acted like perhaps it didn't bother me that much.Later, however, sometimes much later, it came back to me and I gave the matter serious thought.The cumulative effect of all these "plantings" can grow to a serious situation that provides ample motive for personal contemplation and subsequent action.In my case it led to leaving the org.
Thanks for the experience Odrade
It's funny to see the pre-programmed responses they all give..written out,and read back. It's particularly funny how he kept repeating his only defense:"They're just men"...my mom tried that one me also..at which point i told her:"..and THAT'S why i don't follow ANYTHING they have to say...how do i know when they're doing what "God" wants,or being"just men"?...And besides..I thought "God" was supposed to be against that sorta thing..following men to ruin rather than his words".
I then asked her what was so special about them,that if it was something "God" wanted me to know..he couldn't speak directly to me,why does he need them to mediate?-KS
I read your experience Odrade, and you did a great job bringing up topics for him to think about. I do disagree about one thing. And I do so with complete respect for your opinion, but I do think that most of the jw aren't choosing to be dense. I do think that brainwashing and mind control is in play. I know that the farther you go up the ladder, the more you encounter those who aren't mislead. But, for the most part, I don't think that most of them realize they are actually part of something that's simply a lie.
Odrade, the conversation was better for you than for him. Its as if he's Charlie Brown and you are one of those adults talking to him with that Wah Wah Wah trumpet sound. It's all they hear. Glad you were able to purge. W.Once
Your numbered realizations are very interesting and totally spot on. It's so strange to talk to a JW after years away from the lingo and indoctrination - la la land, anyone?
"They're just men" was always my mama's favorite phrase, too. I like Kenzei's response to that - definitely will keep that in mind.