Can God's love be demanded? (page 11)

Deputy Dog

emo

Within context - out of respect for the Jewish believers.

Deu 14:21

Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not see the a kid in his mother's milk.

I'm not Jewish!

But if my eating offends you, I will abstain for your sake.

You may want to look at some other scriptures like

Acts 11:6

Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 7And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. 8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. 9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Deputy Dog

A&O

I think another misconception is that God is subject to His own law, which is given for man. Seeing Him as God of good and evil (sovereign over both), is not the same as characterizing (or judging) Him as being evil.

Sad emo

Then God's word contradicts itself DD.

Perhaps it is a load of BS like non-believers say it is?

On AO's point and the scripture you provided that God creates evil - would you then agree that if He is its origin then nobody should be condemned?

Therefore no 'saving' sacrifice is needed because we don't need saving from anything? We're all doing God's will whether it be for good or evil.

keep going, I'll become an atheist yet!

And how did we get here from the original question anyway lol!

Deputy Dog

emo

Then God's word contradicts itself DD.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it "contradicts itself "

All I did was quote the verse, you seem to want to judge it.

On AO's point and the scripture you provided that God creates evil - would you then agree that if He is its origin then nobody should be condemned?

No! I would not agree.

Therefore no 'saving' sacrifice is needed because we don't need saving from anything? We're all doing God's will whether it be for good or evil.

God said a sacrifice is needed. Man tried to offer sheep, goats, bull's. God offered the perfect Sacrifice. His own Son!

And how did we get here from the original question anyway lol!

You're gonna like my next thread.

AlphaOmega

A&O
I think another misconception is that God is subject to His own law, which is given for man. Seeing Him as God of good and evil (sovereign over both), is not the same as characterizing (or judging) Him as being evil.

I don't consider him to be evil. ...another problem is that as soon as we start personifying God, we lose sight of the fact that he simply "IS". We are the ones that are "being"... he simply "IS". However, we may be God "being" God.

Deputy Dog

A&O

I don't consider him to be evil.

I didn't mean to imply that you had.

...another problem is that as soon as we start personifying God, we lose sight of the fact that he simply "IS".

Are you saying He's not a personal God?

Sad emo

Actually DD, the verses don't contradict each other! (That'll learn me to post well after bedtime lol!)

The verse you quoted was about the permission to eat previously 'unclean' animals, whereas the verse in Acts 15 refers to not eating blood - from either 'clean' or 'unclean' animals - and it is apparent that the gentiles ate pig meat (Decapolis, demons, hillsides!!). So my question still stands - why don't you eat only kosher (as in properly slaughtered, bled and prepared) meat?

(For those who may not know, kosher slaughter and preparation (shechita) is much the same as the halal method - no prestunning, sharp knife to the throat etc)

On AO's point and the scripture you provided that God creates evil - would you then agree that if He is its origin then nobody should be condemned?
No! I would not agree.

Why not? What kind of reasoning says that God creates evil, makes people do evil (obeying His will - therefore imho they aren't actually sinning) and then demands some type of restitution to make up for it? Sorry but that sounds pretty screwed to me!! It sounds like He's punishing Himself for His own 'mistakes'/sins!

Help me understand will ya - unless you're not really a Christian yourself and are playing devil's advocate here!

You're gonna like my next thread.

I'm on the lookout for it now lol! As I said earlier, I'm enjoying the dialogue whatever the outcome

AlphaOmega

A&O

I don't consider him to be evil.
I didn't mean to imply that you had.

I wasn't sure, so I thought that I'd clarify things... he may be reading this

...another problem is that as soon as we start personifying God, we lose sight of the fact that he simply "IS".
Are you saying He's not a personal God?

Not at all, we all have our connection to him and we all interact with him on a personal level, I mean that if we start pretending that he is a human with "magic powers", then we immediately limit him. I am specifically thinking of the example where many see him to literally be a fluffly white-haired old man sitting on a throne. As soon as one does things like that then they are not only limiting God in their minds, but they are in effect creating their own object of worship - not a million miles away from the Golden Calf experience. By "simply" thinking of him AS, or by considering him "To BE", we are not trapping him within the confines of our minds. In accord with "I Am" or "I Am who I Am" or "The unmoved mover", "The Alpha and the Omega" etc etc

sass_my_frass

I love the moss that grows between old pavers, but I sometimes feel that it is indifferent towards me.

Deputy Dog

emo

Necessary for what?
Within context - out of respect for the Jewish believers.

Col 2:13

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. 16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Because of the body of Christ, I have rested from the ceremonial law. But if you want to return to the shadows, as I have said before I will abstain for your sake, out of respect.

If you want to start your own thread on the topic, please feel free. I'm sure there is much more to say, but what does it have to do with the question I've posed?

Please note however that although I believe God is Sovereign, I do not believe He is a Sovereign dictator!

Just so you understand, I believe God is the sovereign KING of the universe! Every particle of matter and every action in the universe. God is not the president of the universe, elected or chosen by you, me or anyone else.

A&O

Not at all, we all have our connection to him and we all interact with him on a personal level, I mean that if we start pretending that he is a human with "magic powers", then we immediately limit him.
I am specifically thinking of the example where many see him to literally be a fluffly white-haired old man sitting on a throne. As soon as one does things like that then they are not only limiting God in their minds, but they are in effect creating their own object of worship - not a million miles away from the Golden Calf experience.

Amen!

I've been thinking about the point you made earlier:

Or to put it another way : Was lucifer "doing it", simply an temporal expression of the Divine from the eternal moment of "now" ?

...and to put it back into literal terms (yuk !), was Satan "entering Judas" in order to make him betray Jesus actually an example of Satan acting out the will of God ?

For if there were no betrayl, there would be no fulfillment of scripture and no crucifixion - hence no salvation.

I may see your point if you could convince me Judas or Satan acted (or were forced to act) against their own will. The wild card in this (for me) is man's perceived will.

Can God's love be demanded?

Share this