Trolling Apologist vs. Informed Apostate - WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CHANGE? (page 7)

Big Tex

So tell me what fear should Rosalee have. At the very least she could tell who these recovered apostates are. I am keen to know how exactly you would argue that revealing their names would be harmful to her first of all or them second of all.

You're kidding right? Revealing personal information, whatever one chooses to reveal, can and most likely will, lead to that person facing judicial action. Why in the world should an active Witness face being DF'd and then shunned just to respond to you or "prove" something to you on some spare thread on a discussion board? Why should that person reveal anything to you at all? What's in it for them? I'm amazed you don't recognize how scary it is for a Witness just to lurk here, much less telling the worldwide web their name, address, Social Security number or whatever else you're demanding from them.

Christopher Scott
(whose publisher cards used to be in the Allen, Texas congregation; don't know or care where they are now)

jgnat

Frankie, honey, melodrama could be rated on the length of your posts.

The validity of your statements is another. I have nothing to fear by revealing my name....So tell me what fear should Rosalee have.

Revealing personal details on the WWW is just plain foolish. Discussion boards are open to the world, including creeps.

I like your style, claiming to not be baptised and now not even studying, but you presume to counsel me on how you are considered by a religion I was a part of for 40 years.

My counsel comes from my worldly experience, so it still applies.

My response again to you is, Yes you would be considered an apostate and a threat, study or not.

Yet, I am not apostate by any definition. I am very interested to hear Rosalee's opinion on my status. I agree that if Rosalee openly admitted she is conversing on a JW-related discussion board, she would be viewed as a threat by her congregation. Do you view her as a threat to this board? I would like Rosalee to feel comfortable posting here, that she is free from Watchtower scrutiny and can let us know how she really feels. The longer I am able to maintain dialogue with her, the more opportunities I have to present an alternate view. Why scare her away?

You can delude yourselves into thinking whatever you want. Elders are simply unprepared and not interested in helping people who do not follow the rules, let alone fraternise with apostates.

Why do you think I consider the elders harmless? Nevertheless, the elders have had a heck of a time trying to get rid of me, LOL!

Frank75

I am simply blown away by your reasoning or lack of reason. Also inability to read coherently what I said.

The statement made by Rosalee was that there are lots of dubs, who went apostate and then returned to dubdom. It is simply not true and is paramount to saying the moon is made of cheese.

How in the world would revealing who these contrite and penitent "former apostate" persons who have already been df'd, then reinstated, be harmful to them (or anonymous Rosalee) any more than posting the name of someone from your Allen Texas congregation who was df'd for adultery 10 years ago and long reinstated and remarried? If she offered as proof of her claim the name "Bill Watson" of the "SF bay west congregation" who was df'd in 82 for apostasy and then came back in 1992, went to the meetings until 1994 when he was reinstated and has been a loyal witness up until the present, how would that testimony put anyone in harms way?

The local elders of Bill Watson are going to hear about rosalee's post on JWD and re disfellowship poor Bill Watson? You are an idiot if that is your argument!

Now if the people she is speaking about were "secret apostates" that only "thought" apostate thoughts in a closet, we would then be talking a different matter and you might have a point. There are at least 6,000,000 dubs who fit that off the topic profile.

You and the gnat are just on a totally different wavelength and seriously lack reading comprehension.

There are creeps on the world wide web? No doubt! What does that have to do with substantiating a claim made. Naturally you totally ignore the comments made about the lack of any JW circus over such a trimphant victory. If what Rosalee says had happened just once, that person would be so well known this discussion board would need no fear of revealing their name.

You guys remind me of the brain dead divwacks at Canada Bethel that I asked why I wasn't being told who my accusers were. The answer was "the elders cannot reveal those names as they are protecting those people from possible reprisals". What might that be? Some "creep" might send them a nasty letter, leave a rude voice-mail on their phone?

You want to play emperors clothes with her, be my guest. No need to turn on me for being.....

Frank75

Rosalee

found your way:

no, i was never an apostate and then reinstated. i was df'd for another reason and then reinstated.

i see there has been much ado about nothing here.

when i spoke of ones 'seeing the error of their way' and then returning, i meant ones who just lost interest for a while and then came back.

Rosalee

frank, jgnat and Big Tex:

this seems to have spiralled way out of purportion. i am not nor have i ever been apostate. earlier, i meant that 'i am one' as having been df'd and returned.

sorry for the misunderstanding.

jgnat, there is no way you could be called an apostate. as i said before you would have to have been a dedicated and baptized member to be one.

jgnat

No worries, rosalee. I'm enjoying the side-argument with 75. I am still interested in how you would view me. Since we're agreed I'm not Apostate, does the society have a label for people like me? Would you apply that label?

jgnat

What does that have to do with substantiating a claim made.

As I've already noted, rosalee can't. She can give her opinion of course, but that doesn't hold much water. Your challenge to substantiate, however, was out of line. No-one should be dared in to revealing their personal information on a board.

Simple question, 75. If I choose to take "sides" with an apologist, and challenge a dedicated member of this board, am I being "disloyal" to the cause?

Big Tex

You and the gnat are just on a totally different wavelength and seriously lack reading comprehension

Anyone who tells me I'm on the same wavelength with jgnat, I'll take as a compliment. I have great respect for her.

As for the rest -- duly noted. You want to argue and sling mud. I don't come around here much anymore and what little time I do spend here is not going to wasted on mindless name calling. From what I've seen, you've got a big bag of nothing. If you want to call folks names and denigrate their intelligence, go for it chief. But I'm not playing.

this seems to have spiralled way out of purportion. i am not nor have i ever been apostate. earlier, i meant that 'i am one' as having been df'd and returned.
sorry for the misunderstanding.

rosalee, it makes no difference to me either way. Sometimes things can get intense on this board, but that's one benefit of freedom of thought, eh?

Although I suppose you would consider me an apostate, names and labels don't mean that much to me. I am more interested in talking with you. When you were disfellowshipped, did you still consider Jehovah's Witnesses to have The Truth? If so, why?

Chris

BizzyBee

Since we're agreed I'm not Apostate, does the society have a label for people like me?

Not sure what the WTS would call you, but I would say you are 'innoculated.'

when i spoke of ones 'seeing the error of their way' and then returning, i meant ones who just lost interest for a while and then came back.
this seems to have spiralled way out of purportion. i am not nor have i ever been apostate. earlier, i meant that 'i am one' as having been df'd and returned.

OK - this clears up something for me. When Rosalee said:

The chances of an apostate turning around are 50/50.

she really meant disfellowshipped ones being reinstated.

HUGE difference. Disfellowshipped and apostate are two mutually exclusive cateogories. For example, I am a successfully faded apostate, meaning I do not believe that the WTS has the truth. Never been DA'd or DF'd.

Rosalee: still waiting for your explanation of Beth Sarim - in the context of the WTS being God's chosen representative on earth - ? (4th request)

Rosalee

Bizzy Bee:

i have absolutely no interest in discussing the Beth Sarim history with you. you can make that five times you've asked if you'd like ... i still will have no interest.

i will get back as time allows to jgnat and Big Tex.

Trolling Apologist vs. Informed Apostate - WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CHANGE?

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