If they do, then, yes there is a good chance they will be pulled in.
Welcome and long life to you on JWD Rosalee
Trolling Apologist vs. Informed Apostate - WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CHANGE?
by BizzyBee 122 Replies latest jw friends
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JH
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Rosalee
Thanks, JH, but I'll probably be one of the odd ones who posts a few times and then disappears.
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funkyderek
Rosalee:
I'm not sure such a poorly-informed post deserves a response. But you're right, there may be lurkers here who wonder about such things.
The lurkers who know the truth and are here for curiosity sake.
Calling your religion "the truth" makes a conversation like this very difficult (which is of course the intent behind the practice). The simple fact is, no loyal, obedient Jehovah's Witness has ever registered on this site. To do so would be considered an act of apostacy by those they are required to believe are God's representatives on earth.
When they see the response of an active JW shoot down the false teachings seen here, they are reassured that they have the truth and leave this site.
I suppose that could have happened once or twice although I can't think of a single case where a JW successfully defended a major doctrine here. But you're right, some might read responses from someone like your or Mad and because accepting those answers is easier, they can conclude that JWs were right after all and "apostates" have nothing worthwhile to say. Those who stay a bit longer might find out that the Watchtower Society has repeatedly been involved in practices that it condemns. It's impossible for a JW to "shoot down" the fact that from 1991 to 2001, the Watchtower Society was associated with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations, or that they have recently been forced to pay compensation to those they knowingly failed to protect from child abusers. Anyone who spends a significant amount of time researching JW theology can only come to the conclusion that it is fantastical nonsense, cobbled together from the writings of a 19th century zealot and a 20th century drunk, modified as needed. That is the reason that your religion forbids any independent investigation into its history and practices.
The odd one will end up posting, usually for a short time, never to be seen here again.
That happens occasionally, although as I pointed out, these people cannot possibly be loyal obedient JWs. Many people come here with questions that they dare not ask at the Kingdom Hall. Very few reject the answers they find here, although sometimes some are too afraid of the consequences of leaving to do so. Some continue to believe by ignoring the information available while others live a lie for the sake of their families, who would ruthlessly shun them if they ever questioned any aspect of JW orthodoxy.
The chances of an apostate turning around are 50/50. The thing is, they know the truth and still deny it.
There's a frightening insight into the mind of a delusional person. Not entirely your fault of course as this is what Watchtower leaders want you to believe (and let's face it, they're experts at getting their "flock" to believe whatever suits them). You may not realise the absurdity of what you're saying as you're likely only repeating what's been drummed into you for years, but you're saying that over 99% of people on this site - people of many different ages, backgrounds and circumstances - spend a huge amount of time pretending to believe the opposite of what they actually believe, which is that their behaviour will result in their imminent destruction, while acting according to their real beliefs would get them eternal life. They form friendships and romantic relationships and have children, all the while (according to you) living a lie. How ludicrous! You can't possibly believe that's the case, and I think that you haven't really thought about it. Perhaps you've been trained to avoid thinking too much.
Any serious JW here won't stay long. If they do, then, yes there is a good chance they will be pulled in.
Most people who come here - regardless of what position they start from - come to the conclusion that most of the claims of the Watchtower Society and the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are palpably false. The evidence is so abundant that any other conclusion is impossible for intellectually honest people.
Rosalee, the fact that you;re here suggests a spark of independence that the Watchtower Society hasn't yet managed to snuff out. You risk shunning from your friends and family and (in your mind) eternal damnation just for being here. Obviously, you think that the Watchtower Society is wrong on this matter. Isn't it worth taking time to investigate the claims made here and see if they might be wrong on other matters as well? If they're not, then your faith can only be strengthened and you can use the evidence you have found to convince the honest people here to return with you. But if they are wrong, you may have some very tough decisions to make. Don't be afraid to make them.
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found-my-way
There is one catagory you've missed.
The lurkers who know the truth and are here for curiosity sake.
When they see the response of an active JW shoot down the false teachings seen here, they are reassured that they have the truth and leave this site.
And where have you seen this? Can you site an example? What false teachings? How can you presume to speak for people that you do not know? DO you know these people who have left this site personally?
The odd one will end up posting, usually for a short time, never to be seen here again.
Again, you are making presumptions, and from a new person to this site, one wonders what kind of special insider knowledge that you would have about those posting here....those who have been around for years would see a trend in posting styles...the only person you can refer to is yourself, since that is the only person that you can accurately predict what they will do.
The chances of an apostate turning around are 50/50. The thing is, they know the truth and still deny it.
Again, where are you getting your stats from?? The real stats are , once those learn the truth behind the organization, they do not stay mentally or spiritually. They may stay to help others out, like the elders and ones in bethel here...or they may stay to not be shunned by family and friends. They learn the truth, and dont deny it...that's the difference Rosalee. What you think is true and what you think is false is what WE ALL THOUGHT TOO. Don't you see that there's a reason the Governing Body doesnt want you here??
Like I said, if they had NOTHING TO HIDE, they would have nothing to fear from you coming here...but they do, and so they try to stop you.
Any serious JW here won't stay long. If they do, then, yes there is a good chance they will be pulled in.
You're right, any really brainwashed JW won't stay here, the fact that you do stick around shows that you have some thinking and reasoning ability left! Good for you!
Getting ''pulled in'' will only do one thing: open your eyes and your mind.
Those who do have their eyes opended are always relieved.
Never once do they lament that they left the troof. This is the story I have read over and over and over again on here.
The only ones who think the WT has the truth are the ones still brainwashed by the GB.
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nvrgnbk
I was an elder. I gave literally hundreds of public talks, CA parts,SAD parts, and DC parts.
I know it's not the truth.
I have not regretted my decision to leave for one moment.
I do lament having given so much to something that is based on an illusion.
P.S.- If coming here and seeing apostates "make fools of themselves" is such a faith-strengthening exercise, why is The Governing Body so vehemently opposed to it? They should be begging the flock to visit JWD.
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BizzyBee
The lurkers who know the truth and are here for curiosity sake.
What could they possibly be curious about? And why?
The chances of an apostate turning around are 50/50. The thing is, they know the truth and still deny it.
Now I'm curious - what do you base these figures on?
From observation, an apostate who has left off association for intellectual reasons is highly unlikely to return - unless it is to salvage family relationships (emotional reasons). We now know, from this site alone, that there is a high percentage of JWs who are associated solely for emotional reasons, which is a form of blackmail. Most everyone here does know the truth - no denial.
Welcome, Rosalee and hope you stick around, for whatever reason.
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Rosalee
nevergoingback:
I read from your first post that you lurked here for a few years.
Did lurking change your mind about the truth or were you already questioning?
And what has convinced you so thoroughly that it isn't the truth?
Just curious.
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nvrgnbk
nevergoingback:
I read from your first post that you lurked here for a few years.
Did lurking change your mind about the truth or were you already questioning?
And what has convinced you so thoroughly that it isn't the truth?
Just curious.
Hello Rosalee. I knew something was wrong with the "truth". It simply didn't make me happy like it was supposed to. Others I knew that were zealous and very active were also unhappy. Of course I thought I was the problem. This just made me more unhappy. I felt like I could never do enough. And believe me, I was doing alot!
I've been questioning the "truth" since I was a kid. Lurking didn't change my mind at all. It did serve to confirm my doubts and helped me to see that I was not alone or unique in my feelings or experiences.
What has convinced me?The fact that the "truth" is so unconvincing. I am willing to bet my everlasting life that it's all an illusion. In fact, that's exactly what I've done.
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Rosalee
Hi never:
So sorry you feel the way you do. I am sad for you.
Rosie
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Rosalee
Bizzy Bee:
Lurkers are curious to see how the other half lives ... a human trait :)
I don't base my 50/50 answer on anything other than what I've personally seen. The ones I speak of definitely did not return for family reasons. They got to see the error of their way and now appreciate the truth more than ever.
Absence does make the heart grow fonder. While some apostates may sin against the Holy Spirit, some find they have just been side tracked for a while.
Just my 2 cents.