by stillajwexelder 78 Replies latest watchtower bible
Sunspot said:
I recall back in the early 70's when that peace treaty was signed at Camp David and everyone was in the "they are talking peace and security" mode at the time...
Annie I remember the same thing. They would hang on that "peace and security" statement whenever it appeared in the news.
Juni
Red pill, I did shit in my pants!
Free will. Jesus H Christ. I'd like to read an intelligent presntation of factual scientific evidence that such a spook exists. We're the product of genetics and environment. Part of an infinite cosmic chain of cause and effect. In order for will to be free it has to be removed from the chain of cause and effect, or else will isn't truly free. If we remove will from the chain of cause and effect, will becomes an effect without a cause. Nonsense, no matter who spouts it. There are no effects without causes. -Martin
appologioes - CORRECTION March 22nd 2002 Awake not 2003
***
g023/22p.9Earthquakes,BibleProphecy,andYou***Earthquakes,
BibleProphecy,andYouBEFORE his death, Jesus foretold events and situations that would give evidence that this world had entered "the conclusion of the system of things." That period, he said, would be marked by such things as pestilences, food shortages, and large-scale warfare. He also mentioned "great earthquakes" that would occur "in one place after another." (Matthew 24:3, 7; Luke 21:10, 11) Was Jesus referring to our day?
Many say no. They assert that the number of earthquakes has not substantially increased in recent decades. In fact, the U.S. National Earthquake Information Center reports that earthquakes of 7.0 magnitude and greater remained "fairly constant" throughout the 20th century.
Note, though, that the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy does not require an increase in the number or power of earthquakes. All Jesus said was that there would be great earthquakes in one place after another. Furthermore, he stated that these events would mark the "beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24:8) Distress is measured, not by the number of earthquakes or how they rate on the Richter scale, but by the effect that they have upon people.
Earthquakes have indeed caused much distress in our day. In fact, during the 20th century, millions have been killed or left homeless by these disasters. Experts say that many of these deaths could have been prevented. "In developing countries," reports BBC News, "building regulations frequently take second place to the demands for cheap, quickly built housing to meet the needs of rapid urbanisation." Commenting on two recent tragedies, Ben Wisner, an expert in urban disasters, states: "It wasn’t earthquakes that killed these people. It was a combination of human error, indifference, corruption, and greed."
Yes, sometimes the deadliest factors in an earthquake are human selfishness and negligence. Interestingly, such qualities come to the fore in another Bible prophecy concerning "the last days" of this system. During that time, the Bible states, people would be "self-centered, lovers of money," and "callous." (2 Timothy 3:1-5, TheAmplifiedBible) Along with Jesus’ words regarding the conclusion of the system of things, this prophecy provides clear evidence that we are nearing the time when God will bring relief to distressed humanity from all present causes of pain and suffering—including great earthquakes.—Psalm 37:11.
Would you like to learn more about this Bible-based hope? Contact Jehovah’s Witnesses in your area, or write to the appropriate address on page 5.
[Footnote]
Some say that any reports of an increase in the number of earthquakes are simply due to advances in technology, which enable more seismic events to be detected.
http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/watchtower-society-backpedals-on.html
Alan Feuerbacher
Along with many other features of what it calls "the composite sign of Christ's presence since 1914," the Watchtower Society has long claimed that earthquakes have been far more frequent and severe in the 20th century than previously, and have caused far more deaths and damage. The December 1, 1993 Watchtower virtually abandons these claims, but does so in a manner calculated not to let on to the average Jehovah's Witness that the earlier claims have indeed been abandoned. We will here examine the earlier claims and see how the Society neatly reduces them to almost no significance without letting on that it has done it. The Watchtower article is a fine example from the Society's arsenal of intellectual magic tricks and illustrates how to divert the reader's attention from the main issue....
The tendency for the Society to drift toward vagueness and to shift the focus of discussion when hard data has proven its position untenable reaches a new height in the articles "Natural Disasters -- A Sign of the Times?" and "Natural Disasters -- Is God Responsible?" in the December 1, 1993 Watchtower. Finally admitting that earthquake frequency has always been the same, ["The earth and its dynamic forces have more or less remained the same throughout the ages." -- p. 6] the articles bury this admission in an avalanche of arguments that try to show that natural disasters of all sorts, even ones Jesus never mentioned, are on the increase.
As for out little neck of the woods: droning 20 minutes about how bad this world is. That earthquackes makes you to lose your sense of securty. Being robed at bright daylight bla bla....this did not happend in the past...blabla.
They totally lost me after 5 minutes.....and woke up after 2 hours....
Cheers
Borgia
The Society loves to put 2 sets of comments out there that are refutuable by their own literature to cover all bases.
Here I am, having this beautiful weekend- not going to the special talk.
I made breakfast this morning and relaxed. Great so far. The wife
rushed out late for field service, but not by any of my doings. Great.
The sun is shining. I catch up on JWD while she's gone. Great again.
I start reading this thread, still great. I follow Blondie's cross reference to
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/earthquakes.htm and read this
section (a bit long, skip it if you are in a hurry):
Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.669
“Jesus foretold earthquakes in significant number and intensity as a feature of the sign of his presence. (Mt 24:3, 7, 8; Lu 21:11 ) Since 1914 C.E., there has been an increase in the number of earthquakes, resulting in much distress. With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914 . The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. These statistics are a means of indicating the extent of suffering from earthquakes during this period of history.” (Requoted in Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989) p.236)
The study is presented as though it is from the Geophysical Data Center but in reality it was tabulated by the Watchtower Society. The results are inaccurate and biased. It is well attested by seismologists that each year there have been several earthquakes over 7.5 on the Richter scale and that this number of has been consistent for many thousands of years. The second criterion was to include earthquakes with more than 100 deaths. How can the Watchtower claim to know how many earthquakes resulted in 100 or more deaths from 2000 years ago? Most villages affected no longer exist, and there are no databases containing all deaths from small villages. Likewise the third figure of $5 million dollars is equally hypothetical. It is meaningless for a time period when people had no cars, electricity, and generally lived in what we would term a shed by today’s world. How many dollars worth of damage would a camp of Aboriginal humpies sustain in an earthquake? If 100 Aboriginals were killed in an earthquake 500 years ago who would honestly claim to have any record that an earthquake had even occurred. This test is unrealistic and the figures are grossly wrong.
In 2002 the Watchtower finally conceded that its earthquake claims were wrong.
Awake! 2002 March 22 p.9
“Some say that any reports of an increase in the number of earthquakes are simply due to advances in technology, which enable more seismic events to be detected. … The U.S. National Earthquake Information Center reports that earthquakes of 7.0 magnitude and greater remained “fairly constant” throughout the 20th century . … Note, though, that the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy does not require an increase in the number or power of earthquakes. All Jesus said was that there would be great earthquakes in one place after another. Furthermore, he stated that these events would mark the “beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:8) Distress is measured , not by the number of earthquakes or how they rate on the Richter scale, but by the effect that they have upon people .”
This is still verging on being deceptive for a number of reasons. Firstly note how it says seismologists state that earthquakes have been quite consistent during the 20 th Century. Seismologists rarely use the term 20 th Century. What they do state is that it has been fairly constant over thousands or even millions of years. By using the term 20 th Century the impression can still be held by uniformed Witness members that the 20 th Century was more prone to earthquakes than those that preceded it.
This article and the Watchtower in general try to indicate that the effect on people today is worse than in previous centuries. This is hardly so. In 1737 there was a tsunami in the same area as the Asian Tsunami on December 26, 2004. The 1737 tsunami killed as many people as the 2004 one. Who do you think was more affected, the people in 1737 or in 2004? In 2004, within hours doctors were flown in with medicine to relieve the pain of the injured, heavy equipment was delivered to help clear the destructive mess and a global campaign of donations means the displaced people could look forward to newly built houses and infrastructure. Compare this to 1737 when hundreds of thousands of people were left to die and fend for themselves, whilst the rest of the world was largely unaware that anything had even happened.
The information provided on earthquakes brings into question the honesty and integrity of Watchtower publications. It also draws into question that the Last Days began in 1914. In order to make Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that earthquakes prove 1914 was the start of the time of the end the Watchtower Society has had to resort to presenting inaccurate figures, quoting back their own wrong figures and misquoting seismologists. This type of intellectual dishonesty is not unique to the Watchtower, but common with writers from apocalyptical movements such as Church of God and Seventh-day Adventists.
There has been no increase in the number of earthquakes since 1914. The number of earthquakes has occurred consistently over long periods of time due to the slow nature of continental drift. Neither has there been an increase in the power of earthquakes. The 1900’s has not even had the most deaths from all earthquakes combined. Finally the 1900’s has not had the largest or most destructive earthquake. Despite the above, this has been used as a very effective sign as every time there is an earthquake Jehovah’s Witnesses believe it is a sign of God.
Excellent link, but I sure got fired up. These guys are running a mind-contol cult. They know it, they are evil.
They may start out under the misconceptions that they are God's representative, but any living GB members who
allowed such spin on clear data (unity of belief at all costs) are guilty of accessory before the fact to all the deaths
resulting from JW's following their doctrines.
Sorry, I got fired up. I won't let it ruin the day, the sun is still shining, and I didn't try to recruit anybody today. Hooray.
I think this subject has been well covered by Carl Olaf Johsson and Wolfand Herbst in their book Sign of the Last Days. They clearly show evidence that these disasters are not peculiar to our own times. This may be one reason that the Society backtracked a little on its own interpretation.
If Jesus was talking about the general conditions that would prevail from his time to his second coming, there would be no need to emphasize the "increase" of these disasters. And that is apparently what Jesus seems to be saying: "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of the birth pains." It is not "the end" but rather the "beginning."
