Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene 147 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  LittleToe

  While I remember, pertaining to Aisha, it isn't really that long that we've been so discriminate in Britain about the age of consent. At the start of the Victorian era it was still 10, as maintained in the 1861 Act. The earliest age for marriage was 12, as it had been since the "First Statue of Westminster" in 1285 and continually reaffirmed up to and including in1576, however this later date accepted age 10 as discretionary for carnal knowledge and distinct from rape.

  From a modern-day perspective its sick, but those were different times and people certainly didn't live so long, so as a proportion of their life it was comparable. No less inappropriate, though.

  How does that compare to laws in the Puritanical USA?
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  'Morning, LT~

  That is interesting and not something of which I was aware. I did a quick search and found this

  http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html

  which happens to mention

  The Campaign To Raise The Age Of Consent, 1885-1994 ( http://womhist.binghamton.edu/teacher/aoc.htm)
  
  [note the education domain] states: "American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven ."

  and also addresses the issue of paedophilia.

  ~Merry
• 

  glitter

  And we used to put kids down mines and up chimneys in the olden days too. It would be ridiculous in the 21st Century to follow a religion made up by a violent Victorian child-labour-using mine owner wouldn't it.
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  And this is also interesting to me:

  As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.

  Determination of the true age of Aisha

  It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:

  .... http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm (read the rest for more details)

  There does not appear to be absolute certainty how old Aisha was at the time of consummation, but it is generally agreed that she was old enough in terms of the time and place in which she lived, and that marriage at the onset of puberty has not been an uncommon practice in a broad span of cultures and times.

  Paedophilia and child abuse is not something I can support or defend, especially not in the name of God, so it was important to me to discover the truth of the matter. I have been praying about it, expressing my desire for the truth (whatever it might be and wherever it might lead). Someone had tried to explain it to me before, but it was not enough for me, and I had done searches before but they did not turn up this amount and type of information. Typing in the phrase 'age of consent' along with aisha helped. It is food for thought.

  ~Merry
• 

  fullofdoubtnow

  Hi Merry,

  I have wondered, seeing your avatar, if you had become a Muslim for a while. The city I live in has quite a large Muslim population, so I'm fairly used to seeing the headwear on many of my fellow citizens.

  Although I haven't personally felt either the desire or the need to examine other religious beliefs since leaving the watchtower, I respect anyone who does, and I sincerely hope that what you have found in Islam gives you the peace and joy that you deserve.

  love

  Linda
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  Glitter: And we used to put kids down mines and up chimneys in the olden days too. It would be ridiculous in the 21st Century to follow a religion made up by a violent Victorian child-labour-using mine owner wouldn't it.

  I can well understand your passion for the protection and well-being of children and I applaud it.

  Please also consider how Aisha was treated and regarded:

  it is of the greatest relevance to note the pivotal role she played as a teacher, exponent and interpreter of the religion of Islam. Aisha was an exceptionally intelligent and astute woman, a young prodigy, and this was the main reason why she was got married to the Holy Prophet, as is clearly proved by events after the Holy Prophet’s life. She entered his household, shortly after his emigration to Madina, just at the time when the teachings of Islam in all fields of life for the Muslim community were starting to be revealed to the Holy Prophet and demonstrated by him by his example and practice. An intellectually gifted person was required who would have daily contact with the Holy Prophet at the closest and most personal level, so as to absorb the teachings that he was giving on all aspects of life by his words and actions. Such a person would need to possess the following qualities:

  • an excellent, precise memory to retain a vast amount of detail accurately,
  • the understanding to grasp the significance and the principles of the teachings,
  • powers of reasoning, criticism and deduction to resolve problems on the basis of those teachings,
  • the skills to convey knowledge to a wide range of audience,
  • and, finally, have the prospect of living for a considerable period of time after the death of the Holy Prophet in order to spread his message to distant generations.

  That Aisha possessed all these qualities and carried out this mission is an absolutely positive and undeniable, historical fact. After the Holy Prophet’s death, she acted as a teacher and interpreter of Islam, providing guidance to even the greatest of the male Companions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. They made a special point of going to her to gain knowledge and seek her opinion. A vast number of sayings and actions of the Holy Prophet are reported from her in books of Hadith. She not only quoted his sayings and reported her observations of events, but interpreted them to provide solutions to questions. Whenever necessary, she corrected the views of the greatest of the Companions of the Holy Prophet. She made rulings and judgments on which Islamic law is based.

  The following are two examples of what the Holy Prophet’s male Companions said about her:

  “Abu Musa said: Whenever there was any hadith that was difficult [to understand] for us, the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, and we asked Aisha we always found that she had knowledge about that hadith.”

  “Musa ibn Talha said: I never saw anyone more eloquent than Aisha.” [1]

  http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

  ~Merry
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  Thank you, Linda. And it is good to hear from you. I am wishing you all the best with your healing process--much strength and peace, healing tears and moments of profound joy as needed, and all the support and love you could ever want. And the same for Trev. I think you are both very special.

  ~Merry
• 

  glitter

  The paedophile scandal was the *only* cause of me leaving the JWs, so it stuck out for me in your post. It's not the only thing that offends me about the JWs at all, but I'd *never* have found out about the other stuff if I hadn't found out about the paedophile scandal, as I always sort of assumed there'd be no *true* anti-JW info online (!) so never even looked! So since you left because of this too, I'm putting myself in your shoes.
  
  It doesn't matter to me how smart she was or how she was treated. The paedophile scandal makes the JWs an unacceptable and immoral leadership (IMO), but the Holy Prophet (says him) is worthy of following despite it?
  
  Also you said you looked at apostate Muslim sites - how come you didn't believe them?
  
  My mum's closest friend is a Muslim (born and raised) and we looked into Islam a lot more when she moved in and we met her. I went to a school that was 60% Muslim (was great not to be the only kid not celebrating Christmas!), my friend's dad converted (now a spiritualist though)... so I'm *not* an "OMFG Muslims! Aaarrgh run away!" person at *all*. :D I just think it's BS the same way I think the Witnesses were BS. :D Edit: got no idea why it's not keeping my paragraphs, Automatic Cr/Lf used to do it but it's not been working... :(
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  And not to be overlooked-- thanks to Narkissos for his always interesting comments and the link as well!

  And thanks to unbeliever for telling us her friends' stories. I am glad they are in a safer, better place for them now, and I sincerely hope that more and more people will become aware that what was done to them and others like them in the name of Islam is not supported by the Qur'an and very much needs to be changed, not perpetuated.

  Hello again, Glitter! Did you read through the links I provided? They discuss this issue in more detail than I could reasonably quote here.

  What I read at the Muslim apostate sites was a mixed bag and I had to do a lot of sorting. Some of them were people with bad experiences like unbeliever's friends, some made interesting points which triggered new questions and caused me to do further research, all of which were either satisfactorily answered pro-Islamically for me or are still in process (being contemplated and further researched). I did not know that much about Muslims at present or throughout history when I became a Muslim myself, and my decision (or awakening awareness) was not based on what others believe or do but on my own reading of the meaning of the Qur'an. It certainly has been an amazing learning experience on both fronts.

  ~Merry
• 

  Undecided

  One question: Why do you never hear a Muslin condem blowing up people, including children by their own demented followers? Why do different tribes of Muslins kill each other, sort of like the Catholics did to the Protestants many years ago? The old Judge R. had some insite when he said,"Religion is a snare and a racket."

  Of course an individual may get some peace and meaning given to them by some words of a prophet(who was just as human as we are) and be able to feel a connection to some God who never shows up when man needs his help.

  Ken P.