by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
Mouthy..You came back..Your addicted to JWD..We`re going to have to put you on a 12step program..Hi,I`m mouthy and I`m addicted to JWD..LOL!!..I knew you could`nt leave..We`re just too dam sweet!..LOL!!...OUTLAW
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT OUTLAW!!!! YOUR MY FAMILY NOW!!!!((((HUG)))
ALANF>>>>>Your wonderful!!!!!!((((HUG)) Your info is great. You too Auldsoul (((HUG))
Oh Heck your all wonderful. You newbies hang aroung they are a good group!!!!
The response to this thread is incredible. Thank you all for your contributions and candor.
Dismembered
Fortunately they are too rigid to adjust they are incapable of it so they will carry on losing members and strength. They are the proverbial old sticks in the mud. They can't see that they are losing mebers by their own fault.
The current Governing Body is directly descended from appointees by vote of men, who were directly descended from appointees by vote of men, and so on until you reach the corporate heads of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society started by C.T. Russell. At no time did God choose the Governing Body. They chose themselves. Since God never chose them, their doctrine has never been subject to God's oversight or correction. Any corrections in doctrine that have occurred have taken place as a result of votes by a small group of men God never appointed to that task.
Good point AS, one has to consider the religiously clouded mind to see why the JW's don't understand this. The "ABBA" theory as, I like to refer to it, is one scripture they point at to prove the "god chose them" stance. A collective of individual delusional minds saying "I am chosen by God" how does one disprove another?s thoughts?
HCM
AuldSoul:
I agree with you. They chose themselves. If Jehovah chose them, WHEN did he speak to them? WHERE did he speak to them? HOW did he communicate to them? WHO was/were the brothers he spoke to? Did somebody go into a trance? Etc. I want to know the answer to this.
Don't I have a right to ask these questions???
They would have to state the time and place where this Divine communication took place. Just like in the Bible.
LHG
The WTS uses the Bible and its own literature in the same way.
How do we know the Bible is the word of god? Because the Bible says it is. "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial..."
How do we know Jehovah chose the GB to represent him here on earth? Because the Watchtower says so. Few question that the GB wrote the Watchtower article saying that the GB was picked by God!
This self-referencing aspect of the WTS, either with the Bible or with its own literature, is effective for the typical Witness. But when you step back from it and take a good look at it, it is really insane to accept it.
S4
I didn't read every page here but Zarco's comments were quite interesting. I used to feel like him, hoping that my fairness and kindness could be the balance that is needed on a BOE. WRONG! The ENTIRE GB and Society make an elder conform -----or else! You cannot be liberal minded and adhere to Watchtower (FDS) policy. Either you are for or against the Faithful Slave. The longer a person stays in corruption, the greater likelihood that they will become more corrupted! Once you get out and are no longer influenced by Watchtower thinking, it's like the scales fall off one's eyes.
What a great thread!
Longhairedgal, you made some outstanding points along with AS and AlanF on this thread. In your last post, your reasonable questions to know HOW and WHEN and WHO in regards to the choosing of the GB (and even of the Bible Students in 1918) are sharp. The answer from Frederick Franz in the Douglas Walsh trial in Scotland was along the line of, "Anyone can look to see that what the WT teaches is Biblical or not, simply by opening a Bible. That we are Biblical is proof."
A (Franz). These [Watchtower Society] books give an exposition on the whole Scriptures.
Q. (Lawyer) But an authoritative exposition?
A. They submit the Bible or the statements that are therein made, and the individual examines the statement and then the Scripture to see that the statement is Scripturally supported.
Q. He what?
A. He examines the Scripture to see whether the statement is supported by the Scripture. As the Apostle says: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good".
Q. I understood the position to be - do please correct me if I am wrong - that a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses must accept as a true Scripture and interpretation what is given in the books I referred you to?
A. But he does not compulsorily do so, he is given his Christian right of examining the Scriptures to confirm that this is Scripturally sustained.
Q. And if he finds that the Scripture is not sustained by the books, or vice versa, what does he do?
A. The Scripture is there in support of the statement, that is why it is put there.
Q. What does a man do if he finds a disharmony between the Scripture and those books?
A. You will have to produce me a man who does find that, then I can answer, or he will answer.
So, we need to verify their teachings for ourselves against the Bible. Yet, WTS teaches that men cannot understand the meaning of the Bible right, unless they study it via the WT:
Watchtower 73 7/1
?Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah?s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God?s holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah?s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God?s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning. Yet God?s people can comprehend such spiritual things?How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the ?deep things of God?!?
Catch 22: How could a person be able to verify, using a book that is 'sealed to them' and having deep meaning boyond their comprehension, that the WTS is actually interpreting it correctly? If we are so incapable of understanding the Bible, how could it ever be a reference for us? They demand to have their cake and to eat it, too.
Anyway, this sleight of hand is a lot easier to pass off than trying to explain HOW and WHO and WHERE the GB got their authority.
bebu
PS to the newbies and lurkers: The Douglas Walsh trial has the WTS leaders of its day admitting some very unbiblical points of view re false prophecy. You may never have heard about them before. (You were not intended to!)
Bebu:
Thanks. I have always wondered about these questions. If this were presented in a court somewhere those would be the questions that would be asked. And even in the bible where Jehovah spoke to somebody it was mentioned who and where.
You are right about their sleight of hand type of answers when pressed for a REAL answer. They hope to baffle everybody with bullshit, smoke and mirrors and presumptuous claims. But the plain truth would be so simple. Alas, they cannot provide it!
LHG
This post is especially directed to you newbies:
If any of you have not yet picked up the book: Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron; I highly recommend that you do so. It is probably the best book written that directly addresses the issue that JWs believe that the GB represents God.
Here are a few of his quotes:
"It is the concept or premise upon which their religion rests. A concept so powerful that upholding it rather than upholding the truth is what influences and ultimately controls the decision-making process of not only the men of the Governing Body but all the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses as well." -pg. 10
"The concept that still holds millions of Jehovah's Witnesses captive is their belief that the Watchtower Society is God's chosen organization to teach them what he wants them to believe; that all of God's directions to mankind comes through this one 'channel of communication'. " -pg. 11
"Once people become thoroughly convinced that God is speaking to them directly or by means of some other person or organization they must act in harmony with their belief or else feel guilty before God Almighty if ever they were to disagree or fail to follow the directions being given." -pg. 12
The following statements are especially appropriate:
"It isn't just that Jehovah's Witnesses simply believe this concept - it's what that belief does to them. Among other things it prevents most of them from noticing anything wrong no matter how wrong it is. And in case anyone does think they notice something wrong, they are warned that they must never try to do anything about it but simply wait for God to do something about it because, after all, 'it is his organization' . . " -pg. 13
Cameron; who was a congregation elder for many years, goes on to chronicle and list all of the teachings, doctrines, and prophecies uttered by Russell and Rutheford prior to 1919 when Jesus supposedly chose the Bible Students as his "Faithful Slave".
Cameron asks how Jesus would have possibly chosen men who believed and taught:
Cameron asks why Jesus would have inspected and then chosen people as his "Faithful Slave" who had been serving "Spiritual Food" that was utterly contaminated.
It's a powerful book which shows what a sham the "Faithful and Discreet" slave doctrine really is.
