Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends

  • zarco
    zarco

    AlanF,

    The point from Luke 21:8 is well taken. It is probably one of the most embarrasing scriptures given the organizations history of predicting the end date several times. I have not studied the scripture in depth - I will. Another poster uses the phase "cognitive dissonance" - it seems to apply to me. The conflict of thoughts / actions is ongoing but the tension is not unbearable. The tension is lessened by doing what I can within the confines of the Org. Eventhough I was raised in the truth, I have mentally fought the teaching that the end is just around the corner by making most all of my decisions based on the long range view, in other words that I am going to live for 70 or 80 years so I better plan for it. When I talk to others about decision making I encourage them to do the same.

    I suspect that someday I will resolve the tention by refusing to believe the WT teaching that the end is near, but I am not there yet.

    zarco

  • becca1
    becca1

    Dear willyloman:

    Thank you for your kind words.

    You mentioned helping your family get out. How did you do this? My husband is on board but I need to tread lightly around my children. Any suggestions?

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Welcome to everyone. AlanF, thanks for contributing. You know how much I value your viewpoiint.

    Luke 21:8 really shocked me when I was leaving the Witnesses.

    More tomorrow.

    S4

  • zarco
    zarco

    To all the posters new and old - I have been afraid to ever post here and it took months of lurking and a timely subject by S4 - but the responses to this topic have been stimulating. We are all biased but to hear different views and fears/doubts clearly explained is a treasure. This interchange is exactly what should take place inside any healthy relationship. Really happy that I joined and posted.

    zarco

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586

    (((becca))) (((Zarco))) (((Doubting Bro)))

    Becca, your story got me right in the ticker. I never had to pioneer while in school, but I hope no child has to go through that nonsense either. My heart lies heavy for all the victims of this foolish concept.

    Zarco, I wish I were in your congregation. Do as much good as you can while you're still on the inside.

    Doubting Bro, I know how you feel, because I'm charting my escape plan too. The first step will be the hardest, but never lose sight of your goal.

    3 wonderful newbies! I love it!

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Zarco

    It's nice to talk freely here! We should all be able to talk like this in the Kingdom Hall....... I remember the book Life Everlasting in the Freedom of the Sons of God. Where's the freedom in the Organisation? it's actually worse than living in a communist country....at least the Berlin Wall has since fallen down!

    If we don't have freedom to discuss our heart's and mind's feelings, we don't have anything. That's why we left the Kingdom Hall. Fear of men in suits stopped us serving God.

    Such a pity.

    Pope

  • confusa
    confusa

    Hi Everyone, I can't believe I'm getting the nerve to chat on this site! I am an inactive sister who has not gone to any of the meetings in the last three years. My husband and I contemplate on the idea of going back to meetings, but I've read too much already and I'm confused and have doubts about certain teachings....I feel very scared that I've committed the ultimate, unforgiving sin of doubting Jehovah's organization. My husband believes this to be the only "truth" but is hesitant about going because is afraid of facing the elders and being judged for being a former bethelite among other things. My mother is an active witness and knows our situation but does not get involved, she wants to keep peace within the family. My in-laws, on the other hand, are what you call your typical judging, sort of fanatic JW. They recently found out that we are cold and are trying to get us to move to the new state they now live in.

  • PopeOfEruke
    PopeOfEruke

    Confusa

    if it was *truly* Jehovahs organisation you wouldn't have any doubts. That's proof already to me at least, that Jehovah has abandoned the Watchtower Society, if indeed he ever played a part in it in the first place......

    Welcome to the forum!

    Pope

  • confusa
    confusa

    PopeOfEruke, I wonder alot of times if this is a test. That we are living in the last days, and the bible does states that many will fall. I sometimes think I'm probably one of the fallen ones. Sometimes I think that there is no excuse for me leaving, that I should know that the organization is imperfect and should have faith and be humble.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    confusa:

    You've done nothing wrong, and everything right, by questioning and doubting the JW organization. You already know that to be as dumb as an ass is not the way to go. Even the Society knows very well that what you're doing is right and proper. Here is some food for thought:

    I'm sure you'll agree that a reasonable God would want his intelligent creatures to exercise the thinking abilities he gave them. Sometimes the Society gives lip service to this, especially when it suits a particular argument they want to advance. From the April 1, 1988, Watchtower, page 30:

    Jehovah does not expect us to show blind credulity. He does not want from us the kind of obedience that a trainer gets from a beast with a bridle or a whip. That is why he told David: "Do not make yourselves like a horse or mule without understanding, whose spiritedness is to be curbed even by bridle or halter." (Psalm 32:9) Rather, Jehovah has endowed us with thinking ability and discernment so that, based on understanding, we can choose to obey him.

    In Japanese, the word kiku (to hear) includes the meaning not only of listening and obeying but also of judging whether a thing is good or bad. When someone speaks to us, it is good to listen in this sense so that when obeying, we do so not by mere credulity but by choice.

    But notice the contrast between what is said and what is really expected. Although it makes statements such as the above, the Society really wants people to practice what was stated by the religious philosopher St. Anselm (1033-1109):

    I must believe in order that I may understand.

    The approach stated by another religious philosopher, Peter Abelard (1079-1142), is more in line with Psalm 32:9:

    I must understand in order that I may believe.

    By doubting we come to questioning and by questioning we may perceive the truth. The Truth book, on page 13, applied this to religion:

    We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. It should be the sincere desire of every one of us to learn what God's will is for us, and then to do it.

    If one believes these words, one should not fear to examine ideas that may conflict with what the Society says on any matter. A red flag should go up when one hears words like these:

    When we talk about law, we talk about organization. With all our hearts we need to search after that law. Jehovah doesn't give individuals interpretation (of the scriptures). We need a guide, and that is the `faithful and discreet slave'. We should not be getting together in a clique to discuss views contrary to the `faithful and discreet slave'. We must recognize the source of our instruction. We must be like an ass, be humble, and stay in the manger; and we won't get any poison. [Governing Body member Lloyd Barry, May 29, 1980, in addressing the elders of the Bethel family]

    If you have a tendency towards `apostasy', get a hobby and keep yourself busy to keep your mind off of it. Stay away from deep Bible study to determine meanings of the scriptures. [Governing Body member Karl Klein, April 30, 1980, in addressing the Bethel family]

    Do these words not directly contradict Jehovah's thoughts expressed in Psalm 32:9? Do they not contradict the spirit of Jehovah, who says to search in his Word to acquire understanding? When there is a conflict, who should one listen to -- Jehovah or the Governing Body? As Joshua said, "As for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah."

    No one should want to be included among those described by the philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre as ones who, "since they are afraid of reasoning.... want to adopt a mode of life in which reasoning and research play but a subordinate role, in which one never seeks but that which one has already found."

    Karl Klein said to "stay away from deep Bible study to determine meanings of the scriptures." This brings to mind a quotation from Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four:

    He is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks too plainly. The Party does not like such people.

    Similarly, "Jehovah's organization" does not like people who think too clearly and speak too plainly.

    : I wonder alot of times if this is a test.

    The only test is what you yourself impose.

    : That we are living in the last days, and the bible does states that many will fall.

    The Bible is very clear that "the last days" began a few years after Jesus' death. Read some accounts of Peter's words, such as in Acts and 1 & 2 Peter. What that means for our day, some 2000 years later, is anyone's guess.

    : I sometimes think I'm probably one of the fallen ones.

    A common trap for someone in your position. Been there, done that. "This too shall pass."

    : Sometimes I think that there is no excuse for me leaving, that I should know that the organization is imperfect and should have faith and be humble.

    Like Karl Klein said? Be an ass and stay in the manger? You already know you can't do that.

    AlanF

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