Zarco said -
*****I hope you dad stays in for a while. Recently a Sister spent much time describing why she wanted to go to college so that she would be able to support her young children. I fully supported her decision and career path, she is pursuing a RN Degree. She calls me the liberal elder. Maybe your dad can help others as well. If one can push the limits somewhat the "truth" can be rewarding experience. I would leave but have no idea where to go and I worry about those left behind. Give your dad a hug if you see him and tell him to keep up the fine work.*****
I think for most of us, and like my dad you get to a point where you can't stand the negative atmosphere any longer and it starts to be detrimental to your own sanity and physical health so you have to leave. I do agree with you though that as long as you are able to you should stay in because you will probably be able to help someone out. I know I defied the "recommended way" many times because it just felt wrong to treat people some ways the society says we should. who knows how that may pay off one day.
I feel for you. I can imagine the frustration you must feel trying to get people to see a more loving way to deal with people.
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
Zarco said -
A bit of food for thought...did Jesus recommend sticking with a corrupt organization or did he openly and brazenly incite people toward apostasy? (John 9-10)
Where in the Bible do you find the concept of "waiting on Jehovah" to correct organizational problems? Where does the Bible show Jehovah operating spiritually on an organization? As I recall, the arrangement of the chieftans was Jethro's idea and having a human king was the idea of the people. But Jehovah always worked with individuals, as far as I can tell.
I totally agree with your take on the idea that we are going to hang around and try to help.
First, you would have to believe in your heart that the organization IS or WAS God's chosen organization. If you believe that, it would be foolish to leave. It also would be a good time to take another look at the facts.
If a person establishes that it IS NOT God's chosen organization, then staying around could indicate a lack of confidence in Jehovah, and a desire to 'take matters into your own hands'.
Auld Soul I really like your posts.
Welcome to the gang Zarco.
S4, it is again always a pleasure to read your posts. (did you get my airplane question on a post yesterday?)
Chris, you have really spoken truth below. People usually won't leave unless they are adversely affected. Rule #1 below was mine, when someone really thought they were serving Jehovah and in reality when the truth comes out it was just another scam. (UN-NGO)
zarco, you remind me of my wife (and I mean that in the best way possible!).
She stayed for 13 years after I left, giving every reason possible. I think she stayed because she wanted it to be the Truth so badly. In the end, she left because finally the dysfunction of the organization touched her.
I'm coming around to thinking that we don't leave this organization until one of two things happen: (1) we find a reason that means something to us personally; or (2) the organization harms us personally in some way.
I wish you well.
A waiting attitude is not without precendent. Micah who observed deplorable conditions and a coorupt leadership says in Micah 7:7 ?As for me it is for Jehovah that I shall keep on the lookout. I will show a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation" Additionally David showe tremendous restraint in waiting upon Jah's direction regarding Saul.
Not trying to preach to you, just explaining my perspective
zarco...when you get burned over and over again and again...it's time to slap yourself up the side of your head and say...WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
We left because we do not sit with "wicked men of lies".
I think that's what made me leave a decade ago. Knowing those problems, because we sure had them back then as well, but knowing I would never really be able to make much of a difference for the better.
This was probably the most frustrating thing of all for me as well. Meetings, meetings, meetings, and field service, never touching very many. I felt like I was making no dent in the world at all. I was never going to be able to be much more than a person that could get to meetings and FS some.
I was just thinking tonight, that I hope, what I do now, does make a difference. I feel good inside. I dont have to keep a record of the time I spend doing it.
Hey Zarco, welcome aboard. Nice to see another elder posting here. My days as one are numbered. Simply because the hypocrisy of the Society is so hard to stomach. But for now I am "holding the door open" for as many as I can. tsof
I still believe it's the truth. But due to the lack of love, eager condemnation and deliberate destruction of marriages, I just don't feel like I fit anymore. I came here and realized that not only was I not alone, but based on what I've found from multiple sources and from my own extensive experience, I've found these things are the rule rather than the exception.
Disfellowshipping is used to demoralize and to discourage and to engender fear. I was told point blank "you are repentant...we know that, but we feel that you can't really be fully repentant unless you are disfellowshipped." LOL There is no system to address gross or deliberate errors on the part of those taking the lead, therefore it continues. We are all supposed to be brothers, yet the heirarchy of the Pharisees is alive and well in the organization. I feel it is God's organization still, just as when the leaders of Isreal did what was wrong.
I know I'm wrong to walk away and to be an immoral person, but I guess I don't care anymore. I've struggled so long against impossible odds and have been nothing but condemned. I don't think I can be a good witness. I don't think I have it in me anymore. Yet a girl I used to love is waiting for me to be reinstated so we can live happily ever after and a couple of family members are too. I haven't been to meetings in weeks and I think they are starting to wonder what is going on.
One thing that really bothers me is that the elders in my new hall keep telling me that there is no minimum time, but that it will probably be a year...I'm not at 6 months yet. How can they excuse that lie? They have broken down meaningful guidelines into nothing but oppressive, damaging rules that are meant to condemn instead of help. I have a hard time believing how they can think that this is the way Jesus would have done things.
Every male Bethelite has the "hero complex," where they think they can make the sun shine and the roses bloom wherever they break wind. If there is anything wrong in the organization it is surely at the hand of Stan, but being Bethelites they can spit silver swords and and stir up a whirling tempest with their Bethel Wings. In other words, they see all this with dissonance.
Welcome to the board, Zarco. Your situation reminds of a number of others, and I don't envy any of these folks.
It can be very difficult to figure out what to do if you leave the Witnesses, but I can tell you that it works itself out pretty well when you do. But you have to look way beyond the narrow confines of the JW religion for this to happen. If you stay in the same old mold -- which is easy to do, especially if you were raised a JW -- you won't make any progress.
As far as what several posters have said regarding not staying with a corrupt religious organization, I agree completely. But you have to find your own comfort level. Based on my personal experience, you're likely to become extremely frustrated after some years go by, as you realize more and more the amount of nonsense and even outright falsehood being taught in God's name, and realize that God really isn't going to do anything about it. The desire to "wait on Jehovah" is rooted in the false notion that JWs really are, in some way, "God's organization" but have just gone astray. The Bible gives its history of the Jews, where God miraculously chose the Israelites to be his people, based not on what they did, but on promises made to their ancestors. Nothing of the kind applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. C. T. Russell gradually invented the religion, and it has evolved steadily since its founding, just as all other new religions do. The only 'evidence' there is that God appointed JW leaders to be this mythological "faithful slave" is their own claims -- quite in contrast to the biblical history of the Jews. So comparing the JWs with the ancient Jews is simply wrong, and assumes that the JW religion is basically right about this. It's this kind of staying in the same old mold that I'm talking about.
Note clearly what Luke 21:8 says: "Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ?I am he,? and, ?The due time has approached.? Do not go after them." JW leaders have consistently claimed "I am he" in the sense of claiming to speak for God and Christ (cf. w64 11/1 pp. 645-6). They have consistently and falsely proclaimed, "the due time has approached" in all manner of literature, including books and booklets with titles such as The Time Is At Hand, The Kingdom Is At Hand, God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years, etc. etc. etc. If you're really a Bible believer, can you reconcile this command from Jesus with your continued association with a group that he pretty much said was to be avoided?
I wish you success in avoiding the wolves.