Ozziepost What an interesting thread. There's a good vibe here and something to be said for the old adage mild answers. I appreciate the contributions of lurkers taking the plunge. I remember myself over 4 years ago posting for the first time. Good for you. I am very curious, however, and I would be interested in hearing from any active JW on this. When I left, kicking and screaming from the rooftops in the late 80's, I left over the issue of child abuse. I was shocked to discover the Society's position. As a result, I did research and asked honest, tough, but legitimate questions of the elders in my congregation, my wife's congregation, 3 CO's, the DO and eventually Bethel. The fact that no one was able to answer my questions forced me to leave. Although I received responses (many times angry), no one could really give an answer, if you take my meaning. 4 months ago I would have fought you tooth and nail, but it is like my eyes have been opened. Maybe my visit to Borea will help me.
Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??
by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends
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JWFreak
ps I seem to have trouble with formattimg...I use Firefox
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PopeOfEruke
JWFreak
I think if you use Firefox you click the Checkbox that is titled something like "Insert automatic line feeds".....that fixes the problem if I recall.
Pope
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AlanF
What opened your eyes, JWFreak?
AlanF
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JWFreak
Hi Alan
It was a child abuse case that I was involved in 6 months ago. All the advice from the Legal Department seem to conflict with common sense, I was asked to gather the evidence from the minor involved. Who was I to talk to a minor about such matters, no training etc . So I refused. which caused a great deal of trouble for me.
I was then sent a link to this forum, and a few months of lurking, made me realise things are not quite right.
The debates with ThirdWitness also helped me to see the folly of the Societys stance on things
JWF -
Grog
I just wanted to say that I really appreciate this thread. I'm just amazed at the number of current elders and lurkers that have their first post on this thread. Could you ever imagine anything like this at a kingdom hall where people could freely say what they feel and question what they have been taught? It just feels right. I've noticed a couple posters saying how they stick with the witnesses even though in their heart they don't belive it in the hope that they can help people who are still in. Sometimes just the act of leaving really opens the eyes of some people. For example if brother so and so who is a great upstanding brother left...there must be something I don't know about it. Personally there was a couple in my hall that I really looked up to and admired.. and then out of the blue I heard that the husband had disassociated himself from the witnesss. I was very curious and found out that he was upset about something to do with the child abuse policy of the witnesses and from there I did my own research which round about led me to knowing so much more about the witnesses. I was so curious as to why this great couple had decided to leave that it led me do some more in depth research and question more what I took for granted before. Sometimes the best good you can do is by setting an example. Anyways great thread. Grog
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AlanF
On this business of the FDS and the GB and "the anointed", I have it on good authority that the powers that be in Brooklyn consider that 8,000+ figure of "anointed" published each year as Memorial partakers is in no way reflective of the actual number of "anointed". Apparently the Governing Body and other high officials believe that "the anointed" class is really limited to a few hundred people now, who mostly live in the New York area so as to be close to the power center.
Decades ago, when a good many JWs still considered themselves "anointed", and the Society was controlled by two men, Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz, the "governing body" was actually the directors of the Watchtower Society, except that Knorr and Franz really ran the show. These two men propagated the lie that the JW organization was controlled "theocratically", i.e., "from the top down", which meant that Jehovah controlled "his organization" through a hierarchy ostensibly instituted by Jehovah himself. Problem was that in practice, these two men were the only entities actually controlling the Watchtower organization. They paid little or no attention to anyone else claiming to be of the "anointed class", unless the claimant had a personal relationship with Knorr or Franz. The point here is that the Society's claim that "the anointed" as a complete body actually controls what happens in "Jehovah's earthly organization" is absolute malarky. It's the Governing Body members, and no one else, who dictate what "the anointed" as a class and as individuals believe and do. This is yet another blatant lie told by the Society to help keep control over the JW community.
AlanF
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nelly136
nice to meet you jwfreak, what happened to the minor? did they get proper help in the end?
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Joe Grundy
It was a child abuse case that I was involved in 6 months ago. All the advice from the Legal Department seem to conflict with common sense, I was asked to gather the evidence from the minor involved. Who was I to talk to a minor about such matters, no training etc . So I refused. which caused a great deal of trouble for me.
I am sorry to go off-topic, but I make no apology for addressing this issue every time I see it arise.
I am shocked that this case happened so recently.
The first rule in any child abuse case is that only those specially (and intensively) trained professionals should be involved in interviewing the victim or 'gathering the evidence'. This is done within very specific guidelines and following fairly rigid rules and procedures. The reason for this is that if it is done otherwise then in almost any jurisdiction the offender/defence would be able to argue that the victim's evidence may be 'tainted' by inappropriate leading questions, etc., and that would in many (?most?) cases lead to acquittal.
This is a lesson that has been learned the very hard way over a number of years. The result can only bring extra pain or even devastation to the victim. Not only were they abused, they are now (as they see it) disbelieved, so perhaps they really were the wicked one all along as the abuser told them?
If anyone has any letters, documents, etc., to show that this is still the policy of WTBTS, it should be brought to the notice of the authorities, etc. (e.g. DPP/CPS in UK, USAG in US) and to the major child charities. It is scandalous and worse than irresponsible. I would be happy to pass on such evidence of current practice if available to appropriate agencies/authorities if any who currently hold it do not want to compromise their own position.
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AuldSoul
Joe,
I am guessing that JW Freak can verify in short order that such instructions are only received via telephone conversations. While he likely did not recognize the nefarious REASON for that legally deniable mode of communication, I imagine he knows that the person he spoke with will lyingly deny to dying breath ever having ordered what they ordered.
Without written instructions, claims can be made of misunderstandings that never actually occurred.
For those still in, Acts 15 shows a meeting of men unafraid of being held accountable for their choices and instructions. Why are the Governing Body afraid of being held accountable for their instructions? Seriously consider, is God using cowards to guide His organization through the Last Days? Where is their freeness of speech that belongs only to the Sons of God? I have more freeness of speech in my toenail than those men have in their whole bodies, and I am nothing. They claim to be something, and yet they cower in fear of litigation.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul