by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals
ThirdWitness,
Now that I have shown that JWs are right about 607, 1914, parousia, seven times, etc I will now address Auldsoul's and others questions about NGO/WT.
lol...Well, at least you have a sense of humor, in a Pantomime sort of way. Now that you have clearly identified yourself as the rear end of the Pantomime horse, when will Scholar be joining you so that the show can really get cracking?
HS
Aulsoul,we can never expect truth from this corrupt individual 3Rd Witness.For him to start a thread,to defend the WBTS NGO status is beyond belief..There is no truth in him..None..If Satan is the father of the lie,we know who 3Rd Witness allies himself with..3rd Witness walks with evil,defends evil and revels in it...OUTLAW
Zagor: Frankly, to me it is greater thing to share ideals of something than just to "respect the principles" which would mean that WTBS aligned itself with UN with its mind and soul. No further explanation needed. Unless you need English interpreter.
I, thirdwitness, share these ideals. Just what are those ideals of the UN?
“to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems."Does the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses share those same ideals? They most certainly do — and have done so for years before the UN formed! It is understandable why NGOs should share these same ideals, for the UN would not want to assist or help any organization which promotes contrary ideas.
Do you share these ideals? Or are you for war, discrimination, genocide, curtailing of freedom and liberties, religious intolerance etc etc?
thirdwitness,
You are about to find out why I wanted you to answer these questions. You have been far more direct than in other post in response to me on this issue, and I appreciate that. It is a most welcome change. I hope the trend continues, I think we have reached a breakthrough. Now, you and I are discussing something. Which is what a discussion forum is for.
And yet, we are to be in subjection to them and show repect to them and their organizational programs and we are to use them for our benefit.
True. But, as JWs, this does not involve voluntarily joining portions of the government of which we are not required by law to be a part. In fact, doing so is a direct violation of the policy set forth in the OM/OD book. The verse used in the OM/OD book are referring to political entities, and the application to religious entities is by extension using the same paragraph.
I posted the paragraph AND the Scriptures, for your convenience. Did you ignore them? Isaiah 2:4 does NOT refer to religious affiliations. Neither does Revelation 19:17-21.
As a baptized JW, can I join the National Guard during peace-time for college tuition or to gain access to reduced price goods from the military base PX, and then refuse to go to war if called? If not, why? The same exact principles applies to the voluntary joining of the UN/DPI. No distinction, whatsoever. It is a governmental institution, it has some benefits a JW might enjoy, and you might not get called on to publicly support something detestable to God. But you are supporting it, just by voluntarily joining it.
To be recognized as a legal religion, in some countries, the WTS has registered as an NGO. Other religions have also registered. So they are all recognized NGO's of that government. Because other religions have been associated as NGOs of the government does that mean the WTS will be judged by Jehovah just like the rest of them?
When you join an organization you join those who are already part of that organization. If you don't understand that, you have no comprehension at all of what you are talking about. The Watchtower Society was not asked to register as an NGO Associate of the UN/DPI, they were told that if they wanted library access they had to apply to associate their organization to a superior organization in exchange for that figurative "bowl of the red." Many other religions joined the UN/DPI as Non-Governmental Organizations. They did not register, there is no such thing as a registrant/registrar relationship between NGOs and the UN/DPI.
The Watchtower Society IS an NGO. Like I AM caucasian. They have always been and (probably) will always be a non-governmental organization. They did not register with the UN/DPI for any special recognition of status as a religion, they voluntarily applied for membership to the organization. If the organization is disapproved by God (and you have already admitted that it is) and is scheduled for destruction by him (and you have already admitted that it is), then they would NOT be disfellowshipped for this voluntary decision.
Just as I would not be disfellowshipped for joining the National Guard for PX privileges. I would be disassociated. Get your terminology right.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/2085082/post.ashx#2085082
On this post, you will find the quotes from both policy publications that set the standard by which I judged them guilty. Please explain why this should not be applied in this matter.
AuldSoul
The YMCA is a false religious organization — the UN is not. While the Bible tells us to be in subjection to worldly governments by obeying the law, paying our taxes, registering in certain programs, and using governments to “legally establish” the preaching work, the Bible puts us under no such obligations to any of the false religions in this world. Revelation 18:4 tells us to “get out from among” false religion, while Romans 13:1 says to “be in subjection” to the government. Using government programs and facilities for our benefit cannot be compared to using similar things from false religions
3W, are you SERIOUS using this sort of an argument? I would be embarassed to use such an argument. Clearly, the WTS has denounced the UN, as the principal part of the Wild Beast, for DECADES. They are far more related to biblical prophesy from a WT perspective than an organization, let's say such as FEMA is. It is not a one for one comparison here, any honest person can see what's wrong with that.
Secondly, the lack of an explanation to the R&F, (and threatening of df'ing for even ASKING about it), does not put the WT in a good light. Again, any honest person can see this. Why don't you try to take an honest look at yourself for once.
j
Tophat said: It is my understanding that the WTS didn't have to join the UN at all to have access to the UN Library...is that so?
The critics often quote statements from the United Nations that the main library, the Dag Hammarskjold Library and it's depository libraries, were accessible to absolutely anyone prior to September 2001. You can read e-mails from the UN itself saying this exact thing.
However, if that is completely true we wonder why the 1994 NGO brochure stated that:
“For NGOs associated with DPI, the United Nations provides: ... use of the Dag Hammarskjold Library.”If absolutely anyone could use the entire facilities, we wonder why the brochure advertises use of that library as a perk of being a DPI NGO. Of course, if we look carefully we can see that the Watchtower Society did not say they merely wanted access to the “main library”. Bethel said that it was “necessary to present an authorized pass to gain access to those specific areas”. Yes, Bethel never claimed it needed a pass to access the Library itself, but to “specific areas” of that library and specific “library facilities”. A quick investigation reveals that there is far, far, more to the United Nations libraries than simply a main library full of books — and far, far, more than simply the Dag Hammarskjold building.
The library facilities of the United Nations, under the Department of Public Information, includes the following:
To access the full range of these facilities you need a DPI NGO pass. Prior to September 2001 you may have been able to simply walk into the Dag Hammarskjold Library as the opposers correctly say — but it is entirely misleading to say all the “library facilities” were available to anyone, because they were clearly not. An NGO pass was required to access everything — otherwise why would the 1994 brochure advertise full access to that library as an NGO privilege? There is only one logical reason: because around 1991 the DPI was making further facilities available at the library, but only to those with an NGO pass.
I, thirdwitness, share these ideals. Just what are those ideals of the UN? “to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems."
You highlighted some of the ideals and did not highlight others. Do you share the UN ideal to "maintain international peace and security" and "to acheive international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems"? Don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe that only God's Kingdom can do those things and that the UN is guilty of acting as a counterfeit of what only God's Kingdom can truly acheive?
For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21) If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person. The presiding overseer should approve this announcement.
Okay, quick quiz...where is this quote from? Is it:
(a) From the group JWs identify as the Faithful and Discreet Slave as represented by the Governing Body.
(b) From an organization that chose to join the UN/DPI.
(c) From an organization that became part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and which is under judgment by God.
(d) From an organization that judges others as deserving of everlasting cutting off for what they themselves do.
or
(e) All of the above.
If you said "(e) All of the above." YOU WERE RIGHT!
Now, thirdwitness, using this quote and your Web site the Watchtower Society disassociated itself from the Christian faith. Using this quote and matching it up against the reply they sent to me, they did not disassociate themselves (or at least it is more difficult to demonstrate that they did). Why is your Web site more candid than their letter to me? Why do you admit that they JOINED and did NOT register as they repeatedly claim in their letter to me?
Most of all, can you demonstrate where I have incorrectly applied the principle from the OD/OM book regarding voluntary disassociation through choice of affiliation?
AuldSoul
“to maintain international peace and security; to suppress acts of aggression that threaten world peace; to encourage friendly relations among nations; to protect the fundamental freedoms of all peoples without discrimination based on race, sex, language, or religion; and to achieve international cooperation in solving economic, social, and cultural problems."
thirdwitness,
Do you share the ideals I highlighted? If so, you directly reject what the Watchtower Society says about political and societal neutrality.
You are talking from both sides of your mouth, here. Its does not require sharing SOME of the ideals, it requires sharing the ideals. Do you share the ideals of the UN Charter? Your list was pitiably incomplete:
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapter1.htm
These are the ideals of the UN Charter. Do you share them? All of them?
AuldSoul
3rd Witness,you are an idiot..From small children JW`s are taught not to have anything to do with the United Nations..Do you really expect us to dismiss what we have been taught from childhood?..You are corrupt.As rotten and decayed as the organization you defend..All Good active JW`s I know,would have nothing to do with a Spiritual Leper like you..You would be shunned and viewed as an object of disgust...OUTLAW
