Ghosts, Demons, or Imagination?

by ButtLight 180 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  funkyderek

  Black Swan:

  Serious question here- could you elaborate further on electromagnetic fields? Please, for my sake, dumb it down. I'm still trying to formulate a comment on another thread and my brain is starting to hurt.

  I was initially going to say that there is absolutely no way a battery-operated toy could run without a battery, but I think a sufficiently strong electric field could, under some circumstances, power such a device. It would need to be very strong - like right under a pylon - and would probably require a humid atmosphere, and the toy to be aligned in the correct direction, but I think it's technically possible although very unlikely.

  See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/3509651.stm for a dramatic display of this principle.
• 

  ButtLight

  Hey, I'm just trying to help.

  Oh, i know, I was just refering to the night terror part!

  I have gotten alot of nice pms with good advice and good stories. Its just a shame they feel they cant post them for fear of getting ridiculed or ripped a new hinder hole!
• 

  BlackSwan of Memphis

  Mrs McD I really hope you didn’t think I was attacking you in any way . I truly, honestly found that information helpful for Me even. Our brains can do really wacky things.

  I think this is what bothered me since the last time I had posted:

  It's the job of a parent to reassure the child that it was just a bad dream, not to perpetuate the fear by acting as if what the child saw was real. Of course, if you fill a child's head with nonsense about ghosts and goblins, some of it is going to seep into their unconscious. Children are impressionable and believe what their parents tell them.

  Funky Derek dude, you need to understand that both Butt and I (I just love that screen name buttlight haha)

  are moms. Saying something like this is like attacking the way a person parents their child. Please, please take that into consideration.

  She Is trying to find other answers. I think also Wednesday made some good points as well. Yeah, the way we thought as witnesses can affect the way we perceive things still. But that is assuming she is still thinking dub like. And oh, ew.

  At this point I can't help but wonder if the problem is that we are as a board trying to solve the question Is ther life after Death and Is there a God with an evil Arch Enemy that sends out His/her minions to terrorize us? (yeah, this is probably one of those 'duh' moments for me sorry)

  We're going back and forth about whether or not there Is a spirit world or realm of energy/consciousness that we don't understand. And this has just been good breeding ground for the discussion.

  I don't think a good number of us who others might call believers, would say that every experience that cannot be immediately explained by the mundane is 'paranormal' we just consider it as one of many possibilities than an impossibility and it seems that those who are non-believers (not meaning to cause hard feelings with that term) think of it, if at all, as a last resort to explain things.

  Ok:

  So would unbelievers consider it at all?

  and

  Maybe we can Not attack Butt's parenting skills. That's what burns me the most.

  meagan
• 

  Sirona

  Well there has been a lot of good info on this thread!

  Most here will know that I think that our consciousness continues after the physical death of the body. What most may not realise, however, is that I also acknowledge that some, if not most, supposed supernatural occurrences are explainable by "mundane" (for want of a better word) means.

  The unfortunate thing is that it is difficult to discern where someone is "seeing something out of nothing". Compare that to any individual who thinks of all the options and STILL can't come up with other explanations. That person, after having a number of experiences, speaking to others and reading up on the subject still cannot reconcile the experience as anything other than supernatural. That individual may have considered that evidence is weighted by things like number of people observing the phenomena, whether there are any factors (any remote ideas whatsoever) which may mean that the phenomena experienced are explainable by anything "mundane". They may record such experiences and talk about them with skeptics before coming up with any conclusions. At the end of this analysis (unfortunately non-scientific in terms of lab-testing) they conclude that they consider the experiences to be not explainable at this time and that they point to the existence of some kind of out of body intelligence(s).

  Compare that to someone who thinks that all strange experiences, even those which could be explained as hallucination, are "real".....well then the skeptics have their very real and very valuable part to play. It could in fact be true that the person hallucinated, dreamed or was in an altered state at the time. Altered states can be induced in many ways.

  All of this, of couse, is my own layman's opinion. ;)

  Sirona
• 

  MsMcDucket

  I think it's kind of strange that people who don't believe in God are so ready to believe in the devil and demons. If there is no God, why would there be devils and demons? To me that is just like believing in a omnipotent power. What kind of ghosts are they supposed to be? Ghosts of dead humans? That would mean that a person believes that the soul does not die with the body. Demons, you've got to believe in a fiery hell...right?
• 

  Sirona

  I think it's kind of strange that people who don't believe in God are so ready to believe in the devil and demons.

  Who said that they don't believe in God but they do believe in the devil and demons?

  Sirona
• 

  funkyderek

  Black Swan:

  Funky Derek dude, you need to understand that both Butt and I (I just love that screen name buttlight haha) are moms. Saying something like this is like attacking the way a person parents their child. Please, please take that into consideration.

  I don't mean to imply that ButtLight is a bad mother. However, if someone posted here about allowing their child to gorge themselves on sweets, and the child then being hyperactive, I'd probably suggest a link. I think this is similar. And just as parents can be ignorant of the effects of poor nutrition without being bad parents, I think it's also possible that the parents' worldview can have an unintended but detrimental effect on children.

  Sirona:

  What most may not realise, however, is that I also acknowledge that some, if not most, supposed supernatural occurrences are explainable by "mundane" (for want of a better word) means.

  Great. So we agree on the cause of some or most of these alleged events. What about the rest?

  At the end of this analysis (unfortunately non-scientific in terms of lab-testing) they conclude that they consider the experiences to be not explainable at this time and that they point to the existence of some kind of out of body intelligence(s).

  This is where we part company intellectually. I just don't see how you go from "unexplained" (or even "unexplainable") to "supernatural". Everything that has been explained - ever - has been explained in natural terms. To me, the logical response to an unexplained event is to provisionally assume that it belongs in the same category as explained events - not a completely different, empty category.
• 

  ButtLight

  It could in fact be true that the person hallucinated, dreamed or was in an altered state at the time. Altered states can be induced in many ways.

  I agree with that totally. Im not saying it isnt possible at all. Actually, I would rather believe that he was dreaming on the couch, and was still half asleep when he went up, and was seeing what he was dreaming. (rather than a ghost) But that still doesnt change my mind about all the other experiences I have had!
• 

  diamondblue1974

  I suppose I have the benefit of being agnostic as to the existence of a 'god' as such but also have had a number of experiences which suggests the possibility (although such possibility hardly being conclusive) of a paranormal element to our being.

  I have a friend who is a medium (or professes to be) and she has seen things which does make even me (as a self proclaimed sceptic) think and ponder over the existence of a spirit world; I think there is a balance to be drawn personally between things experienced with a physical or psychological explanation and things occuring with no apparent explanation whatsoever.

  Where do you draw the line, largely it depends primarily on what you prefer to believe!

  DB74

  (if that doesnt make any sense then blame a bottle of merlot)
• 

  ButtLight

  Ok, Im a sucker for punishment, and just dont care.

  When he was about 9, he was in the bathroom taking a shower. The door was open, and he had the shower curtain open part way. We were the only two home at the time. I was sitting on the couch and he starts screaming, "MOM tell Alisha (my daughter) to get out of here!" So I go by the door, and I said she isnt here! And he said yes she is, she was just standing by the door, looking at me in the mirror and laughing at me! I insisted she wasnt there, he insisted more that she was. Then he asked me if she got her hair cut, and I said no! So I go look through the house to see if she had come home, and didnt see her. I thought maybe she was hiding and playing a trick on him. So I called her friends house where she was staying, and she answered the phone! Could I explain that one to him? Hell no! I couldnt even say something dumb like it was the steamy mirror, cause the door was open and it wasnt steamed up!

  Ok, Im ready for battle