Jesus = Ancient Pagan gods??

by Lilycurly 76 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  stevenyc

  skyman, apologists can't really say anything except, 'yep, there's a similarity', because there is. Similarities that are centuries prior to Christianity. If I was I Christian, I would probably say something on the line of 'God shows himself as appropriate to his time to who he is showing himself to'. Or "these are all aspects of the same ultimate divine being". If fact, I spent some time with a swami, and asked him what he felt about other religions, and thats pretty close to what he said.

  steve
• 

  skyman

  Interestingly I was eating lunch the other day when this subject was brought up. The man had just read a book that a friend of mine loaned him and he wanted me to read it. He said mythological Gods had done everything in mythology that the LORD did in real life. I had to laugh inside the man was in his own way making the first huge leap towards the truth about Jesus but was not quite there yet. I asked him how could Jesus life mimic other Gods if Jesus himself was not also a figment of mythology? He said his mind has been opened and he needed to digest it a little longer. We agreed to loan each other a few books to read. Funny thing a month ago he said and I quote There is noway I could ever beleieve Jesus did not do what the bible says.
• 

  hooberus

  I'm reading a book and this morning I got to a part where it claimed that the life of Jesus was very similar, if no downright copied on ancient pagan myths of different men-gods. (Amongst them Osiris, Dionysos, Attis, Adonis, Bacchus and Mithra.)

  The problem with these so called "copied" "parallels" is that:

  1. They frequently are really non-parallel and only become seemingly "parallel" by the use of equivocation in terminiology (such as defining death by an arrow as "crucifixion", etc.).

  2. The frequent use of post-christian pagan sources.

  3. The use of completely unsubstantied/undocumented claims.

  4. The fallacy that similarities must have come from dependance.

  5. Ignoring or dismissing (without valid merit) the substantial historical evidence for the existence and life of Jesus Christ (for example the crucifixion under Pilate is documented in several extra-bibilcal and secular sources as well as multiple biblical authors.).

  http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html

  http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/Jesuschrist.asp
• 

  stevenyc

  The problem with these so called "copied" "parallels" is that:

  1. They frequently are really non-parallel and only become seemingly "parallel" by the use of equivocation in terminiology (such as defining death by an arrow as "crucifixion", etc.).

  2. The frequent use of post-christian pagan sources.

  3. The use of completely unsubstantied/undocumented claims.

  4. The fallacy that similarities must have come from dependance.

  5. Ignoring or dismissing (without valid merit) the substantial historical evidence for the existence and life of Jesus Christ (for example the crucifixion under Pilate is documented in several extra-bibilcal and secular sources as well as multiple biblical authors.).

  Okay, everyone get the popcorn out!

  steve
• 

  daystar

  hooberus

  I suspect that the most truth lies somewhere in between. A parallel does not necessarily have to equal the other item but just bear a number of similar qualities. There is a formula that is invoked in many, many mythologies involving birth, death and rebirth. The cycle in the Horus mythology parallels that of the Jesus mythology.
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  Ah! Yes, well the book I'm reading is researches concerning the DaVinci code. To discover what is fiction and what is real in the novel. And it uses several other books on the subject and the one they mention this idea from is "the Jesus Mysteries: Was the original Jesus a Pagan god?" makes me want to read it.:)

  I really don't mind fanatics posting here and smothing us all, lol, in fact I hope they will, if it comes with valid arguments.

  Lily,

  do you mind telling me the name of the book you're reading, and the author's name?

  Thanks!
• 

  M.J.

  Funny how the WTS is very adept at pulling out such examples but only when it suits them. Remember their constant quoting of Arthur Wiegall's book The Paganism in our Christianity in the Trinity brochure?

  Here's a list of things attributed to pagan influence from that book which the WTS didn't quote on:

  • Jesus’ mother was named ‘Mary’
  • the virgin birth
  • Jesus being born in a stable & wrapped in swaddling clothing
  • the miracles of Jesus
  • Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness and temptation
  • Jesus’ side being pierced
  • Jesus’ ascension to heaven
  • Jesus’ suffering to save us
  • Jesus being "hung on a tree"
  • Jesus being called the "Rock of salvation"
  • the phrase "Washed in the Blood of the lamb"
  • the practice of Baptism
  • the Lord's Supper
  • the phrase "Soldiers of Christ"
  • Jesus being called "the Shepherd"
  • the doctrine of "blood atonement for sins"
  • the Jewish Sabbath
  • twelve disciples derived from the twelve signs of the Zodiac

  I honestly haven't dug deep enough into this subject to comment much on it, but I do sense that most of those parallels are strained.
• 

  IP_SEC

  2. The frequent use of post-christian pagan sources.

  Some, I wouldnt say frequent.

  3. The use of completely unsubstantied/undocumented claims.

  What?
• 

  Narkissos

  Exceptionally I tend to agree with Hooberus' points # 1-4. The parallel charts are somewhat misleading in that they lack an essential historical perspective (how all myths, including the Christ myth, developed and interacted with one another over the centuries). Also, by focusing on the "pagan" (i.e. Gentile) parallels they leave out one important background for Christianity, i.e. the reminiscences of the Israelite Yhwh who once (in polytheistic setting) was a "son of God (El)," a dying and rising god, revealing himself on a mountain, mastering the storm, walking on the sea, etc. And globally not so different from his "pagan" counterparts. Which suggests that a Jewish mystery cult in the Hellenistic diaspora could have been very similar to the "pagan" ones and ready for reciprocal influences.
• 

  hooberus

  hooberus

  I suspect that the most truth lies somewhere in between. A parallel does not necessarily have to equal the other item but just bear a number of similar qualities.

  A parallel doesn't have to be exact to be a parallel- however, it should be parallel enough to substantiate the claims made regarding it. The "Christ mythers" not only claim parallels but actual borrowing. The so-called "parallels" offered by them are either usually are not very parallel all (relying on equivocation in terminology), come from post-christian sources, lack primary source documentation, etc.

  There is a formula that is invoked in many, many mythologies involving birth, death and rebirth. The cycle in the Horus mythology parallels that of the Jesus mythology.

  Response to the alleged parallels between Horus and Jesus. http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html