When He made them were they perfect? When the Devil threw a monkey wrench in it, did Jehovah abandon His purpose? It is ALL in the first book of the bible. First 3 chapters.
a few posts later...
triple a and Jgnat I will give you the book where it says thaey were made (created ) perfect but not the verse. I dont want you to get LAZY! It is in Deuteronomy.
the master has taught him well....
1 Timothy 2:6
So what are your thoughts about the upcoming announcement defd? What's coming? Defd..What do you think the BIG news will be? The upcoming news Barbara will post this week. Please go back to page one of this thread and read the link re: BIG NEWS...by BARBARA ANDERSON Soooo, folks.....what do we have here? 3---evasiveness? Changing the subject...posters want you to read this thread and comment on it:
So we tell Beep, Beep to start their own thread because they are way off subject. Big D here starts his own thread, which has nothing to do with BBN, & he gets this. Why?
I still think we are talking perfect as in , not disfunctional .The apostles did write on how through one man sin entered the world and yet through another a basis for forgiveness of sin . True they didn't know the difference between good and bad but that certainly couldn't keep people from obeying a commandment .
Paul said there is no sin without law. Who gave the first law? So sin was not even possible until that time. It isn't very hard to be sinless (i.e. perfect) when there is no law to sin against. So, let's imagine that the story of Eden, the Paradise of God refers to a different Paradise than the one in Revelation 2:7 where the tree of life is. Let's further imagine that the Eden story is not allegorical but is actual history.
Please don't bore me with "Jesus spoke of Adam as though he was real." He spoke of lots of things as real that were allegorical. In fact he would not speak a single thing to them without an illustration. That would cover Adam, too.
So since man was not created with the law, he was perfect at least until the law was given. Even allegorically speaking this would stand to reason. So since man could not sin no matter what he did until law was given, why was he given law?
To be fair to Defd (And the NWT) the Concordant Literal Version reads very similar to the NWT:
"Who is giving Himself a correspondent Ransom for all"
(Again, I'm not suggesting that this is a better translation -- or that others are somehow incomplete.)
I have to draw a picture to explain one of my peeves with the JW doctrine. We assume that perfect people would not sin. They know better. But being fully sinless does not achieve perfection. One can be a perfectly sinless infant, dying of cancer.
Sometimes I think JW's confuse perfect bodies and a perfect life and perfect health with a sinless life. Hence their talk of our "shortened life" and how Adam lost his perfectly long life. Sin is a choice, and anyone may indulge.
The KIT puts "corresponding ransom" in the literal word for word translation of the Greek in 1 Tim 2:6
The Emphatic Diaglot does not. It just says "ransom"
Hmmm. I wonder why the change. The Greek text didn't change, the context didn't change. Hmmm.
Oh well, I guess we'll never know.
In Young's Concordance:
under the word "ransom"
the Greek word "antilutron"
1 tim. 2:6
the meaning is given as :
"a corresponding price"
Having been through all the posts by "defd" about 1 Tim 2:6
I quote his posts.
Thanks finally. I looked it and saw that the other versions left it out.
Ip the two things I searched for where in favor of the NWT. It was the other versions that were in accurate.
Td to the contrary. The translation from greek to english I looked up AGREED with the NWT.
My research says otherwise. show me where you looked.
Wanting to check out his sources I realised that not once has he told us what they were.
He use that Watchtower trick of saying "the evidence says" "the facts tell us" "sources tell us" without actually telling us what the source of the information was.
Did you look at anything else other than the "Insight" volumes?
What a strange thread. I'm afraid I have to basically agree with Def'd.
If God warned Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate of the forbidden fruit then that can only mean that they would have lived forever, on this planet, if they had forever obeyed, right? God and the angels don't die and it was never the purpose for Adam and Eve, who were made in God's image, to die either. The Genesis account doesn't have to spell everything out in black-and-white does it?
To deny that Adam was a perfect human being would amount to a basic denial of Christ's ransom and the need for it. Jesus was obviously perfect (sinless and therefore could have lived forever on earth) and only a perfect man could atone to God for what Adam lost.