Should Gay marriages be legalised?

by jwfacts 89 Replies latest members politics

• 

  void

  void

  By whos standards? Because I post some messages on this form only to have my charactor thorn up? I have like 30 posts yet you can Judge my mental state, that is brilliant, you should write a psycolody book or something.

  
  

  
  Oh, I don't think you need a degree in psychology or to be Einstein to figure out someone who;

  1. admits to having previously felt terrible guilt about homosexual longings,
  2. who cannot refer to it in any positive way ("dark", "fooling around", "nasty"),
  3. who has only recently dared to overcome the social conditioning they grew up with and experiment with homosexually,
  4. and who reacts aggresively to anyone who doesn't validate his own world-view

  ... is clearly conflicted and in turmoil.

  Pity YOU can't see it.

  "your opinion at the moment is not really relevant to whether gay marriage is 'wrong or not'."

  And your opinion, until you have actualy sucked a cock your pretty much are ill informed.

  Oh pur-lease. That would be a bit kinky. Don't get me wrong; I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay. But I'm not gay. Having sex with a man would be like a gay guy having sex with a woman. Probably not the most of enjoyable activities.

  "are plagued with guilt??"

  I was in the past, I am far from it now. Dont you know how to read and understand what is the pasttence.

  Oh, I do know how to read and understand. And I see exactly what all the other people see; a guy who is screaming out for help, who is so tightly wound that anyone even trying to reason with them gets lashed-out at. You are so in denial you have reached Lake Victoria... you're in deamazon. Of course, you're probably right and everyone else, even gay people who've commented on this thread, are wrong. LOL.

  "And why isn't it "natural"? Are you unaware of the vast number of species which display homosexual activity,"

  I am, and it is often due to enviromental stress(unnatural) or exploration(as I was saying).

  Wrong wrong and wrong. Why not try and LEARN something? Which part of "the maintenance of stable pair-bonds" don't you understand? There are entire species to whom homosexual contact is a part of their natural life-cycle. But to claim homosexuality isn't 'normal' is just silly. Cutting your hair or eating cooked food isn't "normal". Anal sex isn't "normal", but a substancial minority of heterosexual couples do it with enthusiasm.

  Its pretty much a mute point even in science, many species also eat their shit and others of their species. Does it make it natural for humans?

  Please, make analogies that work. Eating shit, for a human, would damage health. Some animals have the digestive abilities to do it with impunity. There is precisely no reason why damage to health would automatically result from homosexuality.

  "before you lecture someone about American attitudes you should demonstrate you have learnt about the rest of the world yourself."

  Lived in 5 countrys mate.

  Pity you managed to do so without overcoming your programmed, encultured loathing of a homosexual oriontation.

  You might notice that Japan has made massive strides in the past few years as regards respecting human rights; for example, only fairly recently did material Europeans call 'child porn' become illegal in Japan. Was THAT Japanese idea of "normality" right? Obviously not, yet you assume its attitude toward homosexuality IS right without deep consideration of the issue (at least based on what you say).

  Similarly, is it 'normal' that women still have a massive disadvantage due to their gender? Is that automatically right because it's a cultural attitude still prevalent in Japan?? Obviously not.

  The fact that recognition of homosexuality as something of no major import is something that hasn't happened yet in Japan isn't that surprising though, for cultural and historical reasons. Gay sex was okay-ish if it was 'fooling around', but it couldn't damage the all important family. Now having and continuing a family is not seen as the sole goal in one's life, attitudes towards behaviour perceived as being 'anti-family' will change. It's like the heavier religious influence in the USA has retarded similar recogniton of homosexuality as no particular big deal. This relaxed attitude to the issue has already and is continuing to develop in Europe, where the environment is more secular and less partial to non-evidentary faith-based argument.

  You are reaching, Japan is one that I am comfortable with, other cultures in asia also fit in with my view. But in the end I make up my own mind.

  You really haven't convinced me your mind is your own to make up. It still seems immersed in your culture's attitudes, and to automatically assume they are right when the evidence points to the fact that, as with EVERY culture, Japan's attitudes towards what is and is not 'right' changes over time. Yet you don't know enough facts to debate the subject outside of parroting your cultural presumptions.

  "
  

  Stop feeling so damn sorry for yourself and engage in the discussion."

  I did engage in the discussion only to have my opinions raped. I guess I have learned my lesson. Right?

  No, you didn't. You act like a drama queen (man, I'm not touching the stereotypes all over that one... because they are JUST stereotypes, but oh, the irony!!) because people disagree with you. The fact they do so for sound logical reasons and you bleat 'where I grew up people think it's bad' shows the relative validity of the opinons here.

  I suggest you stop being so damn stroppy and talk to the people here who know FAR more than me about being gay. Maybe you'll learn something; I can vouch for the fact they are very very nice people indeed.

  YAWN what a big load of CRAP!

  Just because gay people think being gay is right doesnt make it so. I know its a bitter pill for some of you fags to accept especialy when its coming from somebody that is GAY... BUt GAWD, DEAL!
• 

  lonelysheep

  Yes. It's stupid that it isn't legal.
• 

  AuldSoul

  void, what a sad life you describe. Self-loathing must be impossible to avoid with your mindset. I hope you recover.

  AuldSoul
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  Enigma One

  Unfortunately I think the word "marriage" is too hot button of an issue.
  
  Call it civil unions. Have ALL "marriages" civil unions according to the government. Let religious groups call it marriage. Seems simple enough. If a religious group like the Unitarians decide to bless same sex unions...great. If the Catholic church doesn't...fine.
  
  But all rights of Americans would be upheld. Look at Canada. They have gay marriage and the world hasn't ended. Of course so does Massachusetts. The Netherlands, and Spain. The world seems to be moving along just fine. Besides....why shouldn't gay people have ALL the misery of straight people. LOL.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Personally, unless there are children involved, I'm not too keen on marriage for anyone. I've had two divorces. I see people waste thousands of dollars on weddings, only to divorce in the next few years. I

  've been in my current relationship for several years now. I feel more committed to it than I ever really did in my marriages. I stay now, not because some paper says I have to. I stay now not because I'm afraid of some angry god smiting me. I stay now, because I love Andy. We have boat loads of things in common. We enjoy each other's company. We agree on politics, spirituality and important issues. We have a similar sense of humor and keep each other smiling and laughing.If we get married, it will be to get the legal benefits afforded married couples. Right now there is more benefit in not making it legal.

  There should be legal ways to provide health insurance, rights to plan funerals, visit loves ones in ICU, etc. for all couples who wish or have need of those benefits.
• 

  Enigma One

  FHN....just becaue you are an utter failure at marriage doesn't mean you should deprive others of the same ordeal. LOL j/k
• 

  atypical

  Country Guy - good post, my friend. I hate to be such a simpleton, but I can't fight what I am, so here's my take on the subject: Get married, don't get married, I don't care. The only thing I care about is how it affects others. And that goes for straight people too. If your marriage will rip up some kids head because you just divorced his or her mom, then maybe you should play it cool and not make it official until everyone can handle it. Don't get so caught up in your rights that you ignore the consequences of what you do. I don't think most people really care if anyone is gay or not, it's just that they get riled up when it gets thrown in their face. I don't walk around telling everyone that I love to have sex with my wife and here is every position that we have ever tried. Live practically, don't try to prove a point with everyone, just treat people with compassion and you will be ok, in my opinion.

  As for the law, yes, I think it is damn obvious that people have rights, and that marrying someone of the same sex is not a slippery slope. Having sex with another adult regardless of gender has nothing to do with perversions like pedophilia or bestiality.
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  weeble

  I say let them get married.
  Hell with the staggering rate of failed marriages (1 out of 2), the majority of them won't last anyways.

  Give it a couple of years and this topic won't be an issue anymore. They'll find some other group to pick on especially with the way religion is playing a part in politics....they'll always be pointing the finger at someone.
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  Qcmbr

  No.
  This is just another viewpoint - i.e. don't worry about flaming me - these are just my opinions not world changing facts.
  
  Marriage is not just about love at all - that is I think the emphasis that we grow up being taught by fairytales and the media. Just to have another look at what marriage could be about I'd respectfully suggest that it should be about family - i.e. the rearing of the next generation, the provision for one another in sickness and in health, first line support and defence against all problems and challenges and finally the growth of respect and love born over years of companionship and effort.
  
  Now society has suffered falling marriage rates (where figures remain 'high' they are artificially boosted by the newer phenomena of re-marriages) and rising divorce(maybe associated with less stigma over breakups, legal ease, less tolerance of abuse or dare I say it in some cases boredom and lack of commitment endemic in a throw away society.) There seems to me to be an increase in the 'show' of marriage - often far more effort has been put into the horse and carriage than looking at compatibility and respect. There is also one huge social change which is that of co-habiting and marrying several years later - totally linked to the change in fundamental religious beliefs regarding sex and marriage.
  
  Now if marriage is IMO about family it is here that we would expect to see the greatest benefits for individuals and society when it works and the greatest suffering and hurt when it doesn't. I haven't yet seen a report that says kids are better when the father is not there or are smarter or do better in life but I have seen a lot that talk about social deprevation, higher crime and school drop out rates when a father is absent (especially for boys.) Now in general mothers look after the children so its the men who are moving away from the family as the marriage fails. This has a devastating impact on the men - socially, mentally and often financially (they will often struggle to support any new family as well as the old.) The children suffer for the rest of their lives - you never get over family breakup - you just learn to cope. For mothers left looking after children they are often finacially in trouble are less likely to be able to give the kids as much time as before (she will almost certainly have to work if she is to raise the family out of poverty unless the former husband was very well off.) Marriage failure is a world of hurt. When it works however, there is no better system for providing for the emotional, financial and physical needs of all the partners to the marriage , man , wife and children.
  
  Where do gays come in - when we suggest that marriage is purely a legal framework (i.e. love has nothing to do with marriage - you don't love someone less or more because you're married) that has very little to do with family and a lot to do with ownership of assests and rights to each others wealth and health. There are plenty of ways to gain these legal rights without resorting to marriage - its not that difficult and comes down as a pretty weak arguement for gay marriage. There is no need to be married for sex within marriage since co-habiting has already neutered that particular safeguard and I am not used to gay people being all that bothered with the finer points of what the bible says (they twist it to fit their beliefs anyway (as do ALL people) and I can't think of any gays who would not have sex unless they were married - so they already ignore the bible there - notice how I'm not even talking about whether the bible itself says gays shouldn't sleep together.) So forget religion as a reason for gay marriage - when these self made priests claim it is right before God their words have the same value as their authority to say it IMO.
  
  So we end up with only the legal arguement for marriage having any validity for gays. Well ya boo sucks - there are plenty of laws and arrangements to give the same framework and status for gays without making marriage more of a farce than the state has already made of it.
  
  Marriage is a fairly pointless legal game in a secular state that has more to do with commericial showmanship IMO and the smoke and mirrors that is media romantic love.
  
  I think marriage only has real vitality and purpose when taken from a religious viewpoint - when their is a spiritual promise to fidelity, mutual support, shared childrearing, a lifelong commitment to respectfully grow old together for eternity.
  
  I hope the gay community is as grown up as it thinks it is in that if it argues it already has these things then it doesn't need marriage as well - leave that for those who will bring children into this world through the love between a man and a woman.
• 

  dorayakii

  Yes it should be legalised... I for one put no extra value on couples who are married than on those who have not been but are more faithful to each other. I view marriage as a legal arrangement therefore gay couples should be allowed to get married in order to benefit, as has been said, from pensions, partner rights etc...

  In which case he is wrong, because being circumcised is a good thing. Partners of men who are 'cut' are less likely to get STD's and less likely to get cervical cancer. Thats a GOOD selling point in my book. If a man in a pub said to me 'fancy a shag darlin'? Get yer coat, yer pulled' I would definately give him the frowning of a lifetime. But if he said 'hello gorgeous, I dont have nob cheese and you are way less likely to get Syphillis shagging me' id be on him like a jack russell

  Also its WAY cleaner. Also the men are less likely to get STDs. Also its hardly a big thing is it?? Its not like you lose half you willy. Also its pretty cool in my opinion. (unless you are a jew in which case its just boring and normal).

  Katie, its just my opinion but i dont like circumcised penises very much. They always have a horrible scar. Their sensitivity is reduced many-fold... and really, cleaning your penis every day to make sure nothing builds up is not really a big deal... If you hadn't cleaned your arm-pit in 3 days that would stink as well... its just a matter of normal hygiene. Also its hardly a big thing is it?? Its not like you lose half you willy. I think its a pretty big thing to lose, i for one wouldn't part with my foreskin for the world.

  Just because gay people think being gay is right doesnt make it so. I know its a bitter pill for some of you fags to accept especialy when its coming from somebody that is GAY... BUt GAWD, DEAL!

  Umm... please ban him Simon, i don't appreciate words like "FAG" flying around, any less than if he was to shout "NIGGER" at me... That is completely unacceptable and unforgivable in my book.

  Void, really, come on now, to me, a bi man talking about homosexuality in such a light is similar to a black-man wanting to bring back segregation. Picture this line of reasoning: "Yes segregation is natural... did the races evolve together? No, so its not natural for different races to live together and go to the same schools.Just because blacks say they want equal right, doesn't make it so"... kisama wa, hontouni, baka-na yarou da to omoun datteba yo!!