Should Gay marriages be legalised?

by jwfacts 89 Replies latest members politics

• 

  Enigma One

  Katie...LOL! So....what are you doin later? :P
  
  I had a friend that killed himself because he couldn't reconcile his religious JW beliefs and his homosexuality. It tore him apart day after day. Until one day, he put a gun in his mouth and blew the back of his head off. I was out of the country traveling when he did it. I was the only person who knew his "secret". Made me wonder if I had been around to talk to if he'd still be here. Such a waste.
  
  I work in an office where about 25% of our staff is gay. We have "campy" gay guys. "Butch" lesbians. "Normal" gays. Etc. They are as varied as any straight person. Usually when someone doesn't like these tendencies in others...they hate them in themselves. Life is too short to hide your light under wraps. I count 1 lesbian couple and 4 gay people as very good friends of mine. They have all the same dreams and aspirations as straight people do.
  
  When you realize we are all a bunch of Joe Blow's trying to get thru life the best we can, bigotry falls to the wayside.
  
  As far as S&M and other sexual predilictions....don't really care to hear about them. Of course I don't want to think about my parents have missonary sex either.
• 

  void

  "As you are so clearly conflicted and in turmoil"
  By whos standards? Because I post some messages on this form only to have my charactor thorn up? I have like 30 posts yet you can Judge my mental state, that is brilliant, you should write a psycolody book or something.
  
  "your opinion at the moment is not really relevant to whether gay marriage is 'wrong or not'."
  And your opinion, until you have actualy sucked a cock your pretty much are ill informed.
  
  
  "are plagued with guilt??"
  I was in the past, I am far from it now. Dont you know how to read and understand what is the pasttence.
  
  "And why isn't it "natural"? Are you unaware of the vast number of species which display homosexual activity,"
  I am, and it is often due to enviromental stress(unnatural) or exploration(as I was saying). Its pretty much a mute point even in science, many species also eat their shit and others of their species. Does it make it natural for humans?
  
  "before you lecture someone about American attitudes you should demonstrate you have learnt about the rest of the world yourself."
  
  Ha
  
  Ha
  
  Ha
  
  Ha
  
  Ha
  
  Lived in 5 countrys mate.
  
  "And of course, you are influenced by the conflicted attitude of the culture you are in toward homosexuality.
  In general I think gay people themselves dont really care,"
  
  You are reaching, Japan is one that I am comfortable with, other cultures in asia also fit in with my view. But in the end I make up my own mind.
  
  
  "Stop feeling so damn sorry for yourself and engage in the discussion."
  I did engage in the discussion only to have my opinions raped. I guess I have learned my lesson. Right?
  
  
  "Come on, how can Enigma be an idiot when hes got such a gorgeous body?"
  To me he has an ugly body, besides if he is American he probably has a cut dick. Something I would never suck and feel great pity for him.
• 

  CountryGuy

  In general I think gay people themselves dont really care,

  I'd actually ask some if I were you.

  Void,
  Not that you actually asked me, but I did want to give you (and the board) another gay man's opinion, a gay man who has been in a committed relationship for over seven years.

  I feel that whether you want to marry your boyfriend or not, is TOTALLY up to you and your boyfriend. However, you should still have the right to make that decision yourselves, not have it made for you by the government. I do know many single gay people who have no interest in getting married. However, I know three times as many committed gay couples who want to get married.

  Many excellent points have been made already on this thread. I want to add another one by telling you an experience my husband and I had about three years ago. He was injured while at work. I immediately went to him and the last thing I said before the paramedics walked in was "Remember to tell them I'm your brother." His boss didn't say anything at the time, but later asked me why I had said that. I explained to her that about a year into our relationship, I was taken to the emergency room and the hospital (the only one in town) would not allow him to come back to see me, because we were not related. I wanted to make sure that that wouldn't happen this time. Was lying to the hospital a hard thing, not really. But the point is that we shouldn't have been put in that situation.

  Void, I have to say, when I first read your post, it made me a little angry. Calling your sexuality you "dark side" alone was so totally offensive. That hateful statement was followed by saying that you thought it was "pretty nasty for 2 men or women to get married." Then, I remembered what it was like to be gay and be on the inside of the JWs. It was an awful, hateful place. I felt much like you do now. I hated being gay. Of course, I did what the WT said to do, but it didn't work. Eventually, you will (I hope) come to terms with your sexuality and will no longer call it your "dark side." You will come to realize that being gay is not wrong, as you have been taught.

  To the rest of the board, please keep in mind that being a former JW is really a hard place to come from. Add to that the hatred that the WT spews about gays and lesbians and you have the perfect scenario for self-loathing.

  CountryGuy
• 

  Enigma One

  Katie....well I guess Void is out, no threesome....it's just you and me babe. Shall we head over to the "Hourly Holiday Inn"? LOL
• 

  seattleniceguy

  CountryGuy, Just wanted to say I appreciated your thoughtful and insightful post. SNG
• 

  diamondblue1974

  In my mind its about letting committed couples have the pension and succession rights that married couples have. And at the end of the day, whether you can stomach the idea of one old man poking his willy up another old mans bum or not, if they have lived as a couple for longer than most people are married, and if they have shared propery and a shared life, then one dependent old man should be allowed the pension rights if the other dies, in the same way an old lady would have been. And he should be able to rely on living in the shared house, that they have lived in for years, for the rest of his life if one old man dies, rather than having to sell it to give the dead ones family their half of the equity and facing being a homeless lonely old gay man (or woman).

  Ahh this old chestnut!!! should it or shouldnt it.

  I happen to agree with KK in her comments above...nobody will all ever agree on this issue but the most important aspect is whether the law should recognise homosexuals legally. In my view it should; the law has no place in legislating on morality (unless the issue involves children) because it is highly subjective and people should be left alone to do what they want to do and everyone regardless of our choices or way of life should have equal rights in all aspects of life. In my view UK law has been quite forward thinking in making civil partnerships legal and assigning rights to same sex couples who register there relationship.

  However I do believe that the law hasnt gone far enough...couples of hetrosexual orientation still do not have any rights unless they are married...which in my view stinks!

  DB74
• 

  AuldSoul

  Is Barney back?

  void, you write as though you are 3/4 in the closet with your bisexuality. In my opinion, your opinion on this issue is as valid as the next person's.

  It is just that you look only at the impact on a hypothetical family in a specific hypothetical situation you cooked up. "What ifs" in my experience are the farthest fringes of likelihood, and the general answer I give to "what ifs" is "so what."

  Here's what is likely: On average, in developing countries homosexuals tend to be more productive citizens in terms of wage earning potential. I have no idea why that is the case, but that doesn't matter.

  It stands to reason that if benefits provided to heterosexual married couples help to stabilize their ability to earn and produce because of lowered anxiety over family medical costs, difficulty making medical decisions for a loved one, etc. these same benefits would be realized among the top earners/producers if either (1) such benefits were available through declarative process of some kind, if the government got out of the marriage business, or (2) they were allowed the benefits due to being legally married.

  As to how I would feel if my child brought home XYZ, let me turn it back around on you:

  How would you honestly feel if your daughter was straight?
  If they brough home a partner that was 10 years older than her?
  Who was into SM in a big way?
  Who beat your daughter?
  And your daughter liked it?

  How would you honestly feel if your son was straight?
  If they brough home a partner that was 10 years older than him?
  Who was into SM in a big way?
  Who beat your son?
  And your son liked it?

  I don't really see a huge difference in the reaction I would have under your scenario or these two scenarios (and I could come up with hundreds of equally or more uncomfortable straight scenarios). That being the case, I'd have to logically respond to your scenario, "So what?"

  AuldSoul
• 

  katiekitten

  only to have my opinions raped

  Thats very emotive language. What are you so angry about Void?

  I know ive teased you a bit, but I dont think anyone has said anything to you that justifies the sheer anger you have shown back, and the personal insults.

  he probably has a cut dick

  Well, that is clearly intended as a personal insult, and adds nothing to the debate. Is a cut dick a bad thing? Im lost here. Do you mean circumcised? I still cant see why thats a good thing or a bad thing. Now if you said he had a little dick, I could see where that insult was coming from.

  Sorry for discussing your dick so much, by the way, Enigma . Guess I'll be seeing it at the Happy Hour Holiday Inn in about 20mins . Bagsy I get to keep the shampoo and soaps this time!
• 

  misguided

  My answer is yes.

  It's up to each person to chose if that is what they want to do, imho.

  On a related note the other day, I ran into a JW at the place where we locally go to buy car insurance (she works there). I'm not too sure if she knew I was d/f or not, because she started chatting with me. 2 of her kids are the same ages as 2 of mine. She tells me her 16-year-old, obviously JW daughter is getting married. My response was...NOT congratulations, but...IS THAT LEGAL?!? I said it right in front of the other girl who works there, and all she could muster up was a red face and a shrug. When I got back into my car with my 16-year-old, I shook my head and said. "Thank god we don't belong to those crazy people any longer, so that you would feel you need to get married at 16!"

  HEY HEY HEY, theres nothing wrong with liking to suck cock, (as long as you dont kiss you mother within the same 90 minute period)

  lmao @ katiekitten

  Rose
• 

  Enigma One

  KatieKitten...LOL.
  
  By assuming I was "cut" he was refering to circumcision. As if to intimate I was less of a man if I was "cut". However, when you assume ....well we know what happens. It's a bitter comment as any male who has been circumcised wasn't really given a choice now was he? An infant's parents make the choice for him. Making jokes about something no one can control seems a bit nasty in my book.
  
  Katie, I'll not say whether I'm cut or not. I'll let you report back to the board after the best 6 minutes you've ever had......LOL! Room 669 see ya in 5 minutes.