Aren't JW relatives allowed to keep in touch with their disfellowshipped relatives if they are sick and need help? So since disfellowshipped persons are "spiritually sick" and need spiritual help, then their JW relies should definitely keep in touch with them, right?
Kim's call to HQ's...
by Newly Enlightened 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LoisLane looking for Superman
Kim, I could only listen to the first 9 minutes and heard him LIE!!! That a$$hole says JW's don't use the word MENTALLY DISEASED???
He flat out LIED!
This conversation reminds me when my world was falling apart and I was still a true, blue Believer, I needed help and comfort and understanding.
My COBE who I personally knew for 25 years LIED to me, and he and the other Elder's turned their back to me. Me. Who did extra things in the congo and made them look better.
Fake friends. Fake Christians. Dishonest lying creeps!
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Thank you for calling The World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses. If the phone answering Elder lies to the general public, and he did, does he not think Jehovah knows he is dishonest and lying? Dos he not read Watchtower literature that says lying can disrupt the flow of God's Holy Spirit in the congregation? Does he not know what is drilled into every JW at almost every meeting that liars will not inherit God's Kingdom?
I think the Elder on the telephone knows all of that, he isn't stupid. He knows he is in a man-made-up, flip-flopping Religion but he enjoys his job and all the perks and prestige that come with it. He is a Bethel Star. I would love to see him get kicked out and try to get a job in the real world.
LoisLane
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Julia Orwell
Aww SNAP! Love the bit where he goes silent when you quote the WT about the 'mentally diseased'.
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gorgia2
Well done!
gorgia
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wannaexit
You are one spunky lady KIm--loved it.
Question about jwdefense----sure seems like its sanctioned by the borg
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AlphaMan
YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO SOME OF MY OLD CALLS WITH BETHEL.
JunkYardDog.......I would listen to your calls. Are they on YouTube? I have turned so anti-Watchtower since I learned TTATT, that I think I would also go full attack mode if any JW tried to preach to me that The Watchtower was God's Organization.
The Bethelite lying doesn't surprise me one bit. The religion is a cult that is organized like an ant colony, and the top priority of the worker ants is to protect the reputation of the the Queen Mother Organization. JW's are taught that under the guise of theocratic warfare lying to anyone outside of the Organization is okay if it results favorably towards the Organization.
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Listener
This would be one of the best video's I've seen where there has been a call to the org. It really exposes their lies for all to see.
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Newly Enlightened
Shirley W: Please record your call so we can all hear it.
JUNKYARD DOG: I was not letting them intimidate me and I was NOT trying to debate them and prove I'm right, I was ALLOWING them to talk to hang themselves. I was well prepared ahead of time and trying my best to ramain calm and appear ignorant and confused so they would show their true colors. I was wanting the conversation to last more than 5 minutes.
Believe me; if Mike & I wanted to make JW's piss their pants and run away, we are very capable of doing that.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS everyone...
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DesirousOfChange
DATA DOG: I hope this drives the point home for any lurkers out there. You cannot trust Elders, no matter what they may say, no matter how nice they appear! They will lie to you! COME ON!! THis guy works at HQ!! Wake up!! They will lie to your face and contradict themselves and the WT's own literature without blinking an eye.
You're forgetting that they don't consider it lying if speaking to someone that does not have the right to hear the truth. They would rationalize that Apostates do not deserve to hear the truth. (They would reference Abraham claiming Sarah as his "sister".)
What should it tell a person when the WT representative at Patterson HQ is forced to LIE to defend what was written in the Watchtower. What's wrong with this picture? In his position, he surely knows TTATT. If that man remains at Bethel it is because he is fearful of being cast to the street with no skills to earn a living. He has to shut his thinking down to ignore these issues and continue on defending and representing the Organization. It's what many of us did for years as well.
Doc
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adamah
I guess I don't get the point here, since 1st Timothy 6:3-5 is a brutally-harsh polemic targeting those spreading "false teachings" in Xianity (likely referring to the gnostic Xian believers, the usual targets of such hate-filled rants). The verses are communicating a message of hatred and scorn, saying such men are conceited and depraved individuals who understand nothing, engage in malicious talk, are quarrelsome, sew strife and evil suspicion, and are corrupt in mind.
If the anachronistic phrase "mentally-diseased" had existed back when this kind of hate-filled talk was written, the phrase most-certainly would've been used (and I agree that the translation in the NWT is just too-much of an eyebrow-raiser, but not for the reason that it's not conveying the general message and tone of the author: instead, it's a PERFECT EXAMPLE of the temptation of modern Xian Bible translators to 'update' the words used the Bible, as if to maintain it's apparent currency and relevance to modern-day readers. The RNWT tones it down a notch, but sacrifices accuracy of translation as a result).
In Greek, the word used in verse 4 is noseó (which means "sick or diseased"); 'peri' means 'about/around', ' zētēseis' means 'thoughts (questions)'. The transliteration is, 'sick about thoughts', and 'diseased mind' is not such a stretch from that concept. But as I said above, "mentally-diseased" is too much of an anachronistic rendering, since it conveys a sense of the modern medical diagnosis of mental illness that didn't exist at the time.
As Pulpit Commentary puts it:
Verse 4. - Puffed up for proud , A.V.; questionings for questions , A.V.; disputes for strifes , A.V. He is puffed up ( τετύφωται ); see 1 Timothy 3:6, note. Doting ( νοσῶν ); here only in the New Testament, but found occasionally in the LXX. Applied in classical Greek to the mind and body, "to be in an unsound state." Here it means "having a morbid love of" or "going mad about." In this morbid love of questionings and disputes of words, they lose sight of all wholesome words and all godly doctrine.
And if there's any doubt about the author's intentions at questioning the mental facilities of such apostates, Verse 5 says this (as rendered in KJV):
5. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
The related greek words translated as "corrupt" (in the mind) in verse 5 are elsewhere rendered as "destroyed, decayed", as if to leave no room for doubt that the author intends to question the person's mental stability and faculties.
Granted, some translations choose to portray a more-loving and forgiving picture which is more in keeping with the whole message of Jesus' forgiveness, etc, but that's deviating from the ugly truth of the sentiments found in 1st Tim.
I know many want to separate and/or suppress the sheer ugly brutality found in the Bible in such verses, but why? Why continue to believe in a book which contains such filthy dogmatic hate-speech, in the first place?