by sabastious 312 Replies latest watchtower bible
Before I am accosted for using the term "farrow" (a litter of pigs) incorrectly...
I meant "harrow"...(breaking up and smoothing out the surface of soil)..
I tried to edit my post to change the "f" to an "h" but I didn't notice my error until after the time frame to edit my post had expired...
: )
Strypes, ironically you cite the no true Scotsman fallacy and then use it beautifully in describing Cofty's experience. Well done.
There is a very devout Calvinist at work who would give our more fervent members a run for their money. He is adamant that I was never a Christian and that is why I cannot see or understand the self evident truths of Calvinist God. He includes all born agains, Catholics, liberal Christians, heretical offshoots like JWs , Mormons and SDAs in the same boat. Almost no one on this forum would qualify as a Christian to him.
As a former Christian I can affirm I was as committed and as believing as anyone here. I was less touched by the full on visionary style Christianity than some, I was much less verbally effusive in the love bombing 'Im a slave mwah' style Christianity, I was not a 'straining over a gnat' gotta quote a wall of text peppered with scriptures Christian , I was not a 'god chats to me daily at bedtime' style Christian but I was a devout, try my best, pray hard, get moved by music/human acts of kindness/ inspirational speeches/natures beauty/ vastness of space/love/ hope/dreams/ideals/virtue/endurance Christian, felt as though the spirit did give me guidance, felt surges of emotion like love and hope when discussing or contemplating the divine, felt like I'd had the spirit wash over me many times and act as a constant moral guide , well read scripturally, served my fellow people, evangelising , praying for my enemies christian.
Of course, now that I see it for what it is and share that knowledge, I was never a Christian , I could never have been. Silly thing is, when I was a Christian I used to say the same thing about people who I knew who had fallen away.
Qcmber,
What was it that made you reject the "Corner Stone" (Jesus)?
I've told my story a few times but some highlights:
I wanted it to be true so much ( not just a , see it when you're dead way) and I couldn't understand the reason why what I read in the scriptures regarding miracles, building gods kingdom, truly getting information from god ( as in proper information like, 'missing girl x is in terrible danger, is praying for help and is being held captive at y' kind of useful, do good through god type message) , healing ( this was a big one for me and was always the thing I loved most about bible Jesus) and so on was not happening. I asked god in prayer what I could do, what I could sacrifice, what I could change to make myself available for him to manifest his power. I wanted to build up the kingdom of god so bad and to blaze forth the name of Jesus everywhere to help heal this fallen world and do my part as best I could. Of course I got no answer other than ones I made up ( be patient, be humble , wait on me etc.) In addition I was struggling , on this site, to find convincing answers to very tough and unrelenting questions from atheists and skeptics, the truth shouldn't be hard to justify I thought. I couldn't understand why god wasn't giving me insight in how to lovingly but substantively respond. I decided that it had to be answered, I needed to know if I was defective in some way or if god just didn't want me to do anything on his behalf. I realised I'd never sacrificed my belief, I'd never risked it, if I was unwilling to give up my belief in god then what worth was that belief? I told god in prayer what I was going to do ( study, pray, seek out answers from all areas, examine my life, my beliefs, live righteously, await divine revelation and at the end if no answers came accept that god did not exist) and then did it. Several years, lots of reading, lots of thinking, hours of prayer, critical appraisal of myself and my core beliefs and confronting the central idea that, despite all my seeming spiritual experiences, the wonderful community I was part of, the amount of investment I had made in my faith, I could be utterly wrong.
I was wrong. My faith was vain. My beautiful dream was over. My cause and my devotion a sham. Now I'm just a naked bunch of self aware hydrogen atoms from the beginning of the universe contemplating itself, I am the universe aware and my former god is no longer valid nor needed and such retarding concepts as sin, repentance, eternal punishment, invisible beings, talking animals, armageddons, virgin births, angels are replaced by an enthralling moment of consciousness , now, me, filled with exploration and experience , a moment that is me and refuses to be cheapened by blood sacrifice or ancient myths. This moment I finally feel free to explore and be what I can be. No gods dictate my paths and I hope to help others to realise just how magnificent they are and how little they need invisible dictators.
AGuest, - You remind me of a song... Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" - Strypes the self-righteous
Strypes let me introduce you to your new heroine, the voice of truth.
Aguest aka Shelby says there is no such person as Jesus. She does not simply say that Jesus is a less than perfect version of his name she says there is no such person.
She says that people who pray to Jesus should not expect a reply.
She says that god looks like a mixture between a dragon and a gargoyle
Sprits are destroyed by fire so anybody who was cremated cannot be resurrected - except something about baby teeth that you should ask her about.
The human spirit resides in your bones.
Shelby does not trust the bible at all. It was written by the "lying pen of the scribes".
Shelby let me introduce you to your new disciple.
Strypes loves the bible, she thinks every word was breathed by god and perfectly preserved.
She adores Jesus
Strypes was never a JW - like Tammy she just comes here to preach
She posts on another forum "Gather in his name" where she takes personal details from member-only boards of exJW forums and blabs about it in public using real names when possible.
When I posted about my illness on JWS last year Strypes' response was to tell her Jesus forum that she wanted to pray for my demise
I hope you will be very happy together.
Strypes just for the record I don't live in Scotland and if I did you have no right to broadcast personal details.
I did not abandon my faith because a friend died.
Nice to renew our acquaintance.
Qcmbr,
Thank you for sharing your story with me.
I have been a member of this forum for a long time but never posted much here because quite frankly, some of the folks here were just out right mean spirited. I wish I would have been more active here when you needed someone who was not tainted by the JW experience to help you when you needed it the most. I was never a JW. But I loved someone who was a "born in". I understand that it is very hard to un-learn all the indoctrinations that come with being subjected to this cult. Mainly the doctrines that deminish the Holy Spirit and Jesus as being "less than" God are the core issues, all that other junk is just distraction from the real issues. If you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead (literally) you will be saved. You are not defective or lacking as you do not need to do "works" to be saved. Just believe God and trust him. Trust is a funny thing. When you can't "feel" Him, you have to trust His word that He will never leave you or forsake you. Trusting Him is especially hard when you have been deceived by a mind control cult that deliberately undermined that trust. You said you wanted to be used by God to help others and when God didn't give you some type of divine revelation you figured He must not exist because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it so badly.
Anyway, I am sorry you didn't find the answers you were seeking. I feel sorry also for the ones that put stumbling blocks in your faith walk. Those atheist that deliberately squashed your faith. The consequences for their words and actions will be harsh. (Matthew 18).
Cofty,
My "self-righteousness" is no better than a nasty menstral rag... Thank God I have Jesus' rightesousness. Whew! Thank you Jesus! (Romans chapter 3, verse 22 and 26 especially and Romans chapter 5 verse 17 especially)
I guess you didn't bother to listen to the song on Youtube... The Voice of Truth is The Holy Spirit.
As for wanting to pray for you with my "born again" friends, yes I used your real name as you were the one that "put it out there" Actually, YOU put it out there in one of your first post on THIS forum.. you even mentioned your specific kingdom hall .. and on that other site you even posted a picture of your kingdom hall... so "outing" you was not the issue. You outed yourself.
I asked my friends to help me to pray for you because you are such a hate filled person. I felt like praying for you was like praying for the devil. They helped me to see you in a different light and we would still be praying for you if you had not demanded we take the thread down.
You said that Science would save you and you would never give God the Glory for healing you of your cancer. That is why I do not pray for your body to be healed until your heart is healed.
The Stone that the builders rejected became the cornerstone...
Strypes why do you say I am a hate filled person?
The truth is I am as loving, kind, generous, compassionate a person as you could hope to meet. I have committed hundreds and hundreds of hours to volunteer youth work in the last 16 years and helped countless young people through sport. I have made more friends since I left the borg than I could name and will do anything for anybody if its within my ability. I live in constant wonder of the beauty and majesty of the world and feel inspired by human potential
But you judge me as a hate filled person because I dare to critcise your superstitious fantasy.
You are the one who prayed for my death when I got sick. You have condemned me to hellfire many times and yet you declare me to be the hateful one.
Hypocrite.
*Quote*
"Strypes, just for the record I don't live in Scotland and if I did you have no right to broadcast personal details" ~ Cofty
*unquote*
Cofty, your very first post on THIS SITE 1-11-10 is titled "Another Scotsman Reporting for Duty".. so did you grow up in Scotland or not? Pioneer in Edinburgh or not.. ... lying then or lying now?... you are the one that is broadcasting personal details...
I do love Jesus, Tiz true.
I never prayed for your death. What I said was it is hard not to pray like King David did in the psalms. I considered you an enemy of the faith long before you posted you had cancer and my friends and I were praying for you (and Super punk) over a year before you posted you had cancer.
Your personal attacks and disparaging comments are dripping with hate. Your hatred for me has been evidenced by your words. As you are one who is perishing, I understand that I am the stinch of death to you. When your heart is healed, I will become the fragrance of heaven. (2 Corinthians 2:15-16)
There is NO proof or reason why a few of you would have access to Christ. Your Christ bears no resemblance to scripture or church teaching. You will never define God or Christ for me. Cofty is not mean spirited. To pray for his death or to wish it is evil. The very statement is beyond the pale of civilization and proves you are no Christian. Christ's love (if it were Christ) should make you more gracious. I would say that such statements are the work of Satan. Common sense should prevail.
Christians do not believe what you preach. Jesus said to love your enemies. Bragging about some spurious relationship with Christ or fire is one thing. Such statements reinforce my fervent belief that you are NOT Christian, by any measure.
Strypes why cant you grasp the concept of somebody who no longer lives in the country of their birth?
You said I live in Scotland. I do not.
So now according to you I am hate filled and a liar.
May I remind you that you prayed for my death when I got sick last year and yet you have the temerity to judge who is or was a christian.
