The Stone the Builders Rejected

by sabastious 312 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • irondork


  • AGuest

    Good morning, dear Sab, and peace to you! Thank you for allowing me to continue, because I think this is a very important matter. First, you are correct that the wild beast that "comes out of the earth" is the WTBTS. From there, though, your "road" deviates and I would like to try and help steer you back to the right course, if I can and you will permit me. Before we look at that, though, I'd like to address your interpretation of Babylon the Great because I think you will see that you are off-course a bit there, too. I know that is not your intent or desire to be off-course and so, again, I'd like to try and help.

    Let me quickly define a few terms before this discussion. Babylon the Great is everything on earth that was created by the "work of man's hands" and connects with the Tower of Babel imagery. The Scarlet Beast are the kings of the earth who the Harlot birthed into the world and now is allied with. These kings are all human authorities except for God's personal Order of Melchizedek. Our world is controlled by occult societies who work behind the scenes to alter the course of history for their own means. Occult societies by design work in secret and therefore require a system of lies in order to maintain their status quo. This is why the Beast out of the Earth is required to discover the identities of the holy ones, which are traitors to the World of Lies. I do say that the Watchtower IS the Beast out of the Earth, but not the ONLY party involved.

    Unfortunately (or, as to the latter, fortunately), Babylon the Great is not as either you or the WTBTS intrepret her. She is not the "world empire of false religion" NOR "everything on earth... created by the "work of man's hands." She is the combined entities of Israel (including but not limited to Judaism) and "christianity" (the world of christendom)... including Judeo-Christianity... which is actually pretty easy to see when you look at her description:

    1. She is an adulteress. In order for her to be an adulteress, she had to be a WIFE. And she was, indeed, the wife of a KING, as she states, "I sit a QUEEN." She is a woman, then, who perhaps once sat as a queen but due to her adultery no longer does but only thinks she does - because she is unwilling to acknowledge her adultery and thus the loss of her "place." In this, she is those who once professed a union to the Highest King, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHVEH, and so His “wife”... and thus Israel... and later who professed the same union with His Son and appointed king, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MishaJah). Both of these, rather than remaining true to their husbandly-owners, and so follow THEIR law, which a wife is BOUND to do ALL the days HE is alive... turned to following the laws of other “men.” (1 Corinthians 7:39)

    Both Israel (and particularly Judaism) and christianity committed "adultery", when... thinking their husband dead... they took up with other "men," so as to commit fornication and thus “join” themselves to these... which men are “the kings of the earth,” her paramours.

    Israel did it a few times. First, when, having run out of patience when Moses delayed coming back down the mountain, they built a golden calf and began calling IT their "husband" when they began to bow down to and worship IT... rather than remaining "faithful" to their TRUE husbandly-owner, the MOST Holy One of Israel JAHVEH. They did this in their haste to be UNDER LAW. They did so again when they rejected JAH as their king and asked for a king "like the nations" to rule over them (and so, became subject to HIS, the king's, laws, making HIM their "husbandly-owner"). Again, in their haste to be UNDER LAW. They did it AGAIN, when they rejected JAH for the Ba'al and other false idols of the nations and began worshipping them, so as to adhere to THEIR laws (those idols, which required things like passing one's children through the first, which is something that never even came up into JAH's heart). In their haste to be UNDER LAW. And they did it again, when they (predominantly Judaiam) rejected the king HE sent to them, to become "married" to them, His Son, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MiscaJah)... because of loving the law of another, Moses. They rejected a releasing from THAT law... for a “better” law... pursuant to a better “husband.”

    [NOTE: To help those who might not understand why a woman would want to BE bound to a husband and his law, I need to explain what that means. We, today, consider “husband” as being the male part of a marriage union. This is true. But the word “husband” comes from the term “husbandry”... which is NOT related to marriage... but to cultivating/gardening... and caring for livestock. For example, animal husbandry. A “husband” is one that CARES for, in the sense of taking care OF, the thing(s) in his charge: a garden, field, vineyard, herd, flock, etc. And so the LAW of a “husband,” is that which he engages in order to CARE for the things under his care. Hence, if a sheep does not obey the LAW of its husband (i.e., shepherd, caretaker) it COULD become vulnerable to all manner of dangers, including but not limited to wolves, lions, deep pits/ravines, etc. So, when you see the statement of women being “bound” to the law of their husbands, keep in mind that, during these times, husbands were responsible for and had to CARE for their wives. Given things like marauding bands, hunger, etc., it was sometime imperative for a man to take the lead... and a wife to submit to his law: for them BOTH... and perhaps others in the household... to stay alive.]

    You are partially correct, however, in your understanding of who the “kings of the earth” are, when you state:

    These kings are all human authorities except for God's personal Order of Melchizedek.

    You left out David, though, who was the ONLY human king according to God’s own choosing and designation. Saul is not included because he became king due to the people’s choosing (although JAH chose him particularly). The people demanded a human king, rather than JAH as their king, and so were given one... along with the LAW that such king would be entitled to wield. JAH Himself, however, established David’s throne and said that He did so to time indefinite.

    2. She is the "mother of the harlots."

    Because her children are harlots, they are, by definition, also women, the “women” described in Revelation 14 as those with whom the 144,000 (sons of Israel) did NOT “defile” themselves with. THEY are children she births... not the kings of the earth. Indeed, the kings are those who FATHER her “children,” those “women.” We know that these harlots and women are the same because one can “defile” themselves by having relations with these “women.” One does not defile oneself by having relations with one’s wife, who is considered a “clean” woman (1 Corinthians 6:15, 16). What are these “women”? They are the religious sects that are “born” of the fornication/adultery of those who WERE (or claimed to be) joined to God/Christ... with the “kings of the earth,” the leaders/fomenters of the HUMAN authorities you mentioned.

    3. In HER is the blood of the prophets.

    Only two entities are responsible for the blood of God’s prophets: Israel (and, after a time, primarily Judaism) and “Christianity”. In THESE two are found “all the righteous blood spilled on the earth.” From the blood of righteous Abel, to the blood of Zechariah, to the blood of Christ, to the blood of the holy ones and faithful ones in union WITH Christ. These have been responsible for killing ALL those sent to them by the Word of God, the HOLY One of Israel. While there are other religions that may have put a servant of the True God to death, they were never His wife or Christ’s Bride. So while they have some responsibility for blood of righteous ones, it is not as the entity Babylon the Great.

    Babylon the Great, then, is the composite of those adulterous people who either once belonged to God and/or Christ... or claimed to... and yet, in committing fornication with human authorities... killed the prophets sent to her to warn her of her adultery. She includes the GB of the WTBTS, the leaders of the Lutheran and Catholic faiths who killed Jews during WWII, the leaders of the Protestant movement that called for the death of and/or killed in witch hunts and under other false pretenses those who opposed them as false christs and false prophets, those of the Church who killed, by burning at the stake and other heinous means, those who opposed them for the same reasons, those of the Jewish system who called for and/or put the death Christ, and his followers during the 1 st century and up to the establishment of the Church, and those of Israel and Judah who called for/put to death the Prophets sent to her.

    A few years ago the Watchtower published a tract that told of the coming fall of "The World Empire of False Religion" whom they connect with the Harlot imagery in Revelation 13. This however is a purposeful misdirect as they are fully aware that they are PART of the "World Empire of False Prophets." To join an group of organized crime you have to go through a loyalty test. I suspect that the same goes for organized false prophecy. The Watchtower knows that the occult societies of the world are on a collision course with truth and therefore when their time comes they will immediately fall into oblivion. If the Watchtower can make a true prophecy (fall of false prophets) when they are exposed they believe they can slip into the realm of true prophecy instead of false. However, it doesn't matter if they suddenly start telling the truth because nothing will ever make up for the deception they have plagued the world with.

    I am not aware that this is true, except as to the WTBTS’ knowledge that they are part of the “World Empire of False Religion.” My understanding is that this is NOT true, that Babylon the Great really believes she still sits a queen and so is blind to her own position and place. She does not consider HERSELF the adulteress, but hypocritically sits in judgment of others (by means of her “royal” status).

    So, the Image of the Beast is just a tool of the false prophets. Before Christ's death graven images were used prominently. After his death they declined and eventually people stopped being fooled by graven images. This meant that the false prophets had to rethink a new strategy to get worship and that meant focusing on the occult societies which spans all the way to our day (Cabalistic). It's the occult societies that make up the collective "World Empire of False Religion" that the Watchtower is a part of.

    Your first sentence is correct; the image is a tool. However, your position as to occult societies, etc., is not known to me. My guess (unless/until I hear different) is that these are really nothing to be concerned with but are only a decoy. Because they do not specifically target the holy ones and faithful ones in union with Christ. They simply target anyone who stands in their way of prosperity, wealth, and affluence. Which could be ANYONE, including atheists, humanists, ecologists, and more.

    The "Image" that is erected by this beast is doctrine and organizational structure.

    This is TRUE; however, I think you are misguided in your understanding of WHAT doctrine and organizational structure, which I will discuss in a separate post (which I will make in a bit).

    No longer do prominent people bow down before graven images in the way that it used to occur. Now we have groups who assert, "God works through an organization" which makes up the collective "Image of the Beast" which is used to kill the holy ones by exposing their love for truth.

    Not quite; the TRUTH is that we have had that assertion for quite some time, dear one. Those who led the Jewish system of worship at the time my Lord walked in the flesh asserted this, that that system was the ONLY means by which to worship God. Indeed, it was the grounds used by the priests to falsely accuse him of sedition, the exceptions he took to that system because of what it had become due to its corrupt leadership. Thus, my Lord condemned such a system of worship, saying that the time would come when people would no longer worship in Jerusalem and pursuant to such a system but in spirit and truth. Eventually, that system was torn down when its “visible representation (of God on earth),” the temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 70CE.

    It was reinstituted when various “Councils” began to be formed in the 3 rd - 5 th centuries in order to reestablish an “organized” system of worship... and another “visible representation of the Lord on earth.” Because of rampant corruption among the leadership there, THAT system was rejected when the Protestantism movement began; however, the leaders of this new system only abandoned SOME of the doctrines, while keeping others. But... you cannot put new wine into old wineskins and “a LITTLE leaven ferments the entire lump.” And so, nothing was truly different; once again, anything and anyone who didn’t hold tow and adhere to the teachings of the various institutions was rejected, even killed. Yet another corrupt system, due to a corrupt leadership. Nothing knew under the sun.

    Then came the more modern institutions: SDA, LDS, and the WTBTS. But like their predecessors, these too only showed themselves to be just more “children” of the harlot Babylon the Great: harlotous “women”... fomented and led by false christs and false prophets, corrupt leaders... whose sole purpose is to “mislead, IF POSSIBLE, EVEN the chosen ones.”

    The ONLY system of worship that is pure is one that looks to GOD as it SOLE leader... and so to the One HE appointed to lead. By following the One HE appointed... and NO ONE ELSE... one is following, listening to, obeying, and being led BY God Himself. Because to rejected such appointed one is the reject HIM. As it would have been to reject Joseph’s appointment and authority BY Pharaoh.

    Now, that One might have servants he sends out, yes. But if those servants are requiring any to listen to THEM... to listen to what THEY say... and to obey THEM as their leaders... rather than encouraging/imploring/exhorting ones to listen to HIM... to what HE says... and obey HIM... as their leader (Matthew 23:10)... then they are not only FALSE prophets... but false CHRISTS (anointed). Because the very Spirit by which they SPEAK... knows who God’s true leader is... and would never point to anyone OTHER than that One. Never.

    It can’t... because such would be a LIE. And this Spirit is the Spirit of TRUTH... and so, CANNOT lie.

    Again, I will address what the “image of the wild beast” is in a separate post. In the meantime, I hope this helps, at least to help you and others “see” what... and who... Babylon the Great... and her “children” (women/harlots) are.

    Peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a doulos of Christ,


  • cofty
    Thank you for allowing me to continue, because I think this is a very important matter - Shelby

    It's odd what esoteric stories some people consider important isn't it?

  • cantleave

    We live in a world poisoned by religious conflict, impoverished by reductions in biodiversity and where we are struglling to feed an ever growing population, and we are being told this is an important matter! FFS.....

  • dazed but not confused
  • AGuest

    It's also odd, is it not, what people some people apparently consider important, as well... such that they (1) bother to even read what those they claim contempt for post, and (2) bother to comment so as to let others know they did?

    What are you (still) looking for, C? You won't find it/him reading my posts, truly. You WILL find it, though, and him... if you just come down a tad... and go TO him. He is still there - the Door that he is has not yet been shut. He stands "open", even to you... if only you would look for HIM... and rather than spending so much time trying to convince yourself that he's not there. He was there previously - unfortunately, those you followed didn't tell you that... or how to find him... because THEY didn't/don't know. He called out to you... and while you heard, enough so that you TRIED to respond... you kept LOOKING at the wrong ones. And so, for awhile you convinced yourself that he didn't even exist. Now, you are trying to hold onto the conviction... but you can't. Because you know it is not TRUE. And so, rather than admit that YOU made the wrong choices... you want to argue him out of existence... by arguing with and as to ME.

    But it won't work, dear one. If it would... you would have made your peace with me and why I'm here... and what I share long, long ago. You would have been SO convinced that I am false and what I share absolutely lies... that you wouldn't even bother; wouldn't give me or what I post the time of day. As you don't others who make claims of holy spirit, being/knowing "Jesus," etc. You don't pursue them because you ARE convinced that they are false. You pursue me... because you are NOT. Because... I am not, C.

    So, I must ask you, and I do so as kindly and nicely as I can: if you believe me to be false and what I share to have absolutely no truth or merit to it, why not consider just moving on? You know, not even bothering to read what I post so that you, personally, don't even have to be concerned?Otherwise, don't you risk being among those who actually call ATTENTION to what I post? And since you can't control what others believe... risk exposing them to what I share... perhaps even to Christ himself?

    Or... are you perhaps pretending to disbelieve his and God's existence... and feigning disbelief... and FAITH... in them? Perhaps you, too, are a "rock crying out," C... just in a different way.

    A doulos of Christ,


  • cofty

    Don't flatter yourself that I actually read your self-aggrandising ramblings Shelby.

    You appear to be full of amateur psycho-babel this evening.

    I sometimes reply to your diatribes just so others know there are rational people on the forum as well.

  • AGuest
    I sometimes reply to your diatribes just so others know there are rational people on the forum as well.

    Yeah, okay, uh-huh, sure... you keep telling yourself that. Eventually, you will believe it.

    A doulos of Christ,


  • Tiktaalik

    Yeah - so anyway - what's a doulos?

  • cofty
    Yeah - so anyway - what's a doulos?

    It means slave.

    It was pointed out to Shelby that the concept of slavery is obnoxious to rational humans so she changed it to the Greek for slave as if that made any difference.

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