The Stone the Builders Rejected

by sabastious 312 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EntirelyPossible

    Who, on this thread, told someone not to discuss the topic?

  • tec

    Hmm, perhaps you are correct. No one stated what one can discuss. Only that it is worthless to discuss THIS, and that doing so is wtesque. (I swear the person who most often breaks Cofty's law is Cofty, lol)

    The only thing that I find wtesque... are comments such as that - deciding that because something is worthless to you; then it is worthless, period.

    There is this though:

    So you believe in someting else, not found in the gospels, why can't you merely assert it?

    Which I read as 'you can tell us that you believe something other than what is generally accepted, but don't actually discuss what that is. We don't want to hear it'.

    (to which there is an easy solution: don't read it)

    If it is meant as something else, I wouldn't mind knowing what that is.



  • PSacramento
    As for the whore, I think it is the Catholic Church. I saw a documentary about it a while back.

    I think you meant to say the Roman Catholic Church.

    Not to nit pick on details but the CATHOLIC church means the universal church of ALL believers, regardless of denominations.

    All that believe in Christ are the Catholic ( Universal) Church.

    The distinction may not seem like much to you, but there is one.

  • AGuest

    Well, since you simply cannot bring yourself to move on from a thread and topic that YOU imply holds absolutely NO interest for YOU:

    There is much nonsense on this thread.

    There is. Absolutely. Particularly your comments. MUCH nonsense. Make NO sense, at all. None, whatsoever. But... not surprising. Why would any expect sense to come from someone posting on a thread for which they imply they have absolutely NO interest... and the topic of which they stated "no one" wants to discuss... yet, here THEY are... commenting? Yet, we're the irrational ones. Okay.

    What would happen to the world if we all preached whatever we wanted or even made stuff up for malicioius reasons.

    Much of what we see, including the WTBTS. When man simply tells the TRUTH, however... and gives the glory and honor FOR that truth to the One s/he received it FROM... rather than taking credit for such for themselves... you will begin to see a different world. Until then, your own chagrin because of your OWN blindness and ignorance... and jealousy because such is not being made known to YOU... is more and more telling.

    I will take objective evidence over ignorant musings.

    Apparently not, because you continue to engage in the latter.

    I am a Christian.

    On what basis and by what means? I dare you to respond... and give "objective evidence" for it.

    Your rantings about Christ are too much.

    Of course they are... for you. Because you cannot receive them. Because you don't KNOW him... or are you known BY him. You know... and are known by... your, what is he again, 'learned pastor'? Who says he doesn't know? Of course he doesn't. That you follow him, though, only fulfills MY Lord's words... about the blind... FOLLOWING the blind. You should CERTAINLY take credit for being that kind of "christian."

    One can be objective and believe in Christ. To ignore evidence is silly.

    Again, show us, objectively, how and why you are a "christian". What makes you one? WHO chose YOU... and how do you know? What evidence did you receive... and will share with us... so that WE know? Or... did you choose yourself?

    A computer can come up with better explanations.

    Then, by all means, look to your computer. Stop looking here. And certainly stop looking to me... because I have nothing for you, as I have stated many, many... many times. You want communion with God? I don't think so. Else, you would go to... and THROUGH... the One who grants such union. You don't. You don't even know who that is.

    I know enough from Witness days to know this is merely Witness II.

    Well, then, let's shut the board down and all go home. Because YOU "know enough... to know." And that's all anyone needs. Right?

    So you believe in someting else, not found in the gospels,

    What was not shown in the gospels? Christ being the foundation stone? Of course it's in the gospels. Dear Strypes gave you the verses for that. Unfortunately, you want to say what's not "in" there... but refuse to read to see one way or the other. Rational?

    why can't you merely assert it?

    If you mean why can't I just assert it without referring to the gospels, my response is because then you would cry and whine about that, the lack of gospel reference. If you mean why I can't assert that I believe in something not found in the gospels, it's because in this case that's not true. But again, you obviously have no clue as to what IS in the gospels (other than perhaps what your "learned pastor"... whom YOU say admits HE doesn't know... may have told you).

    I feel that you are smothering us the way the Witnesses smothered us.

    I am not smothering you. I didn't ask you to come to this thread, read ANY part of it, including what I posted, OR comment. Nor did the OP. Your feeling of "smothering" is because YOU refuse to "breathe". To take IN holy spirit, the breath of God. And so... your own "air" is choking you. Deal with it and stop blaming others for YOUR choice(s).

    There are many other believers on this thread who did not share your view.

    Really? Where are they? So far, the only persons who appear not to share my view is you and couple/few usual suspects. While the dear OP and I may not share the same views 100%... we are not opposed to one another. But, what, you thought I thought you/they WOULD share my view? Even more, you thought I would even CARE if you didn't? It is not rational for you folks to keep on thinking I care... when I have stated many, many... many times.. and in MANY ways... that I do not.

    (And it's not rational for you to keep thinking you represent so many more folks than you do. Unless, of course, you're counting some of your other "personalities." Maybe the one(s) that have tried to "deal" with me? They don't seem to speak with the same "voice" as you do here.)

    You cannot dismiss them by calling them atheists.

    I can (although I don't know that I have). You don't have to accept that, though; but, again, I don't care if you do or don't.

    for atheists, why should they care that you make crap up?

    I'm thinking that if they are TRUE atheists, they shouldn't care about ANYTHING I do... so long as it doesn't affect THEM. That some do apparently care... and about a whole lot that apparently relates to me and what I post... makes absolutely NO sense to ME. TOTALLY irrational, IMHO.

    Read the Bible.

    Practice what you preach.

    writing is often beautiful.

    It's all beautiful, it you know which parts are truth and which parts aren't. Truth is always beautiful. Lies are never so.

    I don't care what you believe.

    Yes, you do. And this will probably never end until you stop lying to yourself... or I stop giving you the time of day. I'm getting there.

    What bothers me is the imposition of your views as holy and that must be followed to find Christ.

    Okay, here's the thing: I am not imposing ANYTHING on you... or anyone else. Nor am I telling you... or ANYONE... that what I share must be followed. What is occurring with YOU... which is driving you NUTS... is that you are hearing the One who tells me tell YOU that what I post is TRUE. But... your jealousy that he is not telling YOU, so that YOU can post these truths... is eating you up and standing in your way. You keep saying that I am "telling" you. I don't direct these things to you. So how am I telling YOU anything at all? But you have hardened your heart... hardened your mind... and stiffened your neck... as is customary for Israel... and so you cannot fathom that the "voice" that is TELLING you... is not mine.

    If, however, you would SOFTEN your heart... so as to SOFTEN your head... so as to TURN your own very stiff neck... you would SEE who it is that is speaking to you. You would turn your face toward HIM... so as to hear HIM... and would know that it's not me who's speaking to you, at ALL... but that it's HIS words that are "bothering" you. "Stinging" you, actually.

    Believers here have Christ.

    The believers, yes. Indeed. Again, though, show us, please YOUR "objective evidence" that says YOU are among those. Otherwise, you're nothing but an imposter... as you like to accuse others of being.

    WE may follow different faith traditions but we are Christian.

    Then surely, you accept Jehovah's Witnesses as christians, yes? Because all THEY'RE doing is following different faith traditions. So, per your position, no one here should have ANY problem with them... right? Especially not anyone who calls themself a christian. Or... are you perhaps a hypocrite?

    Jesus did not deliver long drawn out theological explanations.

    Of course he didn't. He said he WOULDN'T... until he had been glorified and holy spirit was sent... and that THEN all things would be made clear to those in union with him. Right? He did say that... at least, the Bible says he said that... the gospels... right? You DID read of that, yes?

    This stands for x, y stands for p, etc. He taught in parables that contain contradictory tensions within themselves.

    Oh, wrong. Not only did he teach in parables, SOME of which contained contradictory tensions... but he almost ALWAYS explained them afterward. But, then, you wouldn't know that... because (1) you'd have to READ a parable, and (2) you'd have to understand his explanation of it. Which you apparently haven't... and certainly don't. You're just mimicing what some "scholar" told you it was "all about" in some class you took. Or perhaps from your "learned pastor", who you state admitted he "doesn't know."

    His preaching was not I heard voices.

    Wrong again. He said MANY times that he listened to the Father. Indeed, that was the FOUNDATION for his words: that HE received them from the Father and was only telling folks what the Father had told HIM. And... yep... he also talked TO the Father. Did any SEE that One, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAHVEH? Other than those who did so while in spirit and via a vision? Heck, Saul of Tarsus didn't even SEE anyone...

    The best sign of any believer, even atheists, is how they live their lives.

    It is. And if you think posting on an Internet forum is indicative of how a person lives their life... then you should probably take a break from your computer. People can SAY... all day LONG... what they "do" in their lives. Means absolutely nothing. I know what I DO in my real life... and there are many here who know, as well. THEIR testimony as to what I do in my life... and not what I say I do... is what counts.

    Objective evidence has done so much for the world.

    For the world, yes. Those who belong to Christ are PART of the world. Right? True, they are IN the world, and must live and navigate it. But they are not PART of it. The world is on it's own course... while these follow the Lamb. Right? I mean, Christ DID say, did he not... the world is fond of its OWN, yes, but that once one is chosen by him OUT of the world the world would hate such one... yes? Not to go down that particular road, just yet, but I am curious how you... who claim to be a "christian," see your place in that statement. You know, since you apparently love the world (and so keep trying to push it down MY throat - and please don't deny it; just go back and review what you have written to me)... and the world loves you (which you obviously find some great joy in). How do YOU reconcile what he said... with what you wish me to believe about it?

    Your Christ seems puny to me.

    He did and does to a great many. That he's a "stone" YOU would reject isn't surprising, at all. Indeed, your comment shows him to be just that, to you. I told you, YOU keep demonstrating your OWN lack of knowledge. I don't have to do it for you.

    Pick up any newspaper or any piece of classical literature. The human condition itself presents many present problems and angst.

    It does. Always has. And will for a time yet. Since I don't have the power... or authority... to solve ALL of its problems, I do what I can: help those I can when I can... and ask nothing in return. Ever. Like he did and has taught me to do. And don't go blowing a horn in front of me when I do. Again, as he did and has taught me to do. Because I don't need your approval... or any man's. Or your "brownie points." Because they have no value. I can't "spend" them anywhere. It's HIS gold... his talents/minas... that have value. And so I seek and receive THOSE... and "spend" them. Here and elsewhere.

    Without his gold... I am less than poor; beyond destitute, actually... and I know this. YOU, though, say YOU are "rich", though. Okay. Revelation 3:17

    Fighting over the meaning of an obscure book seems strange.

    The ONLY one fighting here is you. And yes, given your position of non-interest... it IS strange. WHY are you even ON this thread? Why did you even come to it? It certainly wasn't to discuss. No, it was to take issue. Why? No one asked you what you thought. You chose to share it, though, and that is that YOU don't think the topic warrants discussion. So, why are you HERE, then? Not rational. Not at all.

    Will we be stuck here for eternity?

    Stuck where? On this thread? Who is making you stay on this thread? On this board? Who is making you come here and stay here? How can you try to convince others that you're free... while crying about being "stuck"? CHOOSE.

    This is worse than Kingdom Hall.

    Funny, you're not running to go back there; yet, you're here. Everyday. And for HOURS. So, apparently not.

    You have got to be one of THE most irrational posters I have ever come across. On ANY board. Because you contradict yourself, often (usually) in the same sentence. You make it EASY for me to expose your hypocrisy and blindness. One would think you'd grow tired of that. My Lord knows... I'm growing increasingly tired of doing it.

    A doulos of Christ,


  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Boring, sigh. I heard this stuff for countless years in the KH and the lit I was forced to read. Some people just love the JW experience. They may be ejected by elders after 15 jcs, but their beliefs are pure JW. Their outlook is pure JW. JW teachings and a subway token will get me to Brooklyn, or so the saying goes. Why would I want to go to Brooklyn? This site proclaims it is for ex-JWs. Some just want to put their own slight gloss onto JW teachings.

    So boring.

  • AGuest
    The four horseman frighten most people.

    Those who don't know what such depict, perhaps. Particularly if they allow themselves to succumb to the sensationalism that many use it for. Think of all stories, books, movies, comments, etc., re the "Apocalypse"... which this particular part is only minorily mentioned but always tends to be the lion's share... all designed to be horrific and evoke FEAR! And here you are... revealing for us your own (which is one reason why you can't hear... although you, too, are being spoken to!).

    While it represents some pretty significant events, it's fulfillment really isn't that scary, at all. John certainly wasn't scared... and he SAW it. Why wasn't he scared... and why isn't scary for those to whom it's fulfillments ARE revealed? Because... PERFECT love casts ALL fear... OUTSIDE.

    KEEP asking... and it WILL be "opened" to you.

    A doulos of Christ,


  • AGuest

    "Some people"? "15 jcs"? Goodness, girl, you really ARE obsessed. Get. A. Grip. Maybe moving ON from topics... and posters... that just rub you the wrong way will help you DO that.

    [OMG, I just had a thought: people come out of the WTBTS with all kinds of issues, some of which are never resolved. Are some of ya'll's "fixation" on me... or "us"... and my/our topics/faith... perhaps a product of that, YOUR unresolved issues (OCD, maybe?). High control cults create high control people, people who simply cannot function "normally" outside of the controlled environment. Inside, they become "choked" by the attempts at control by others; outside, though, they fall into the same pattern... trying to control EVERY aspect of their lives... including the thoughts and beliefs of others... if they perceive such has SOME effect on them (even if it doesn't! They only need to THINK it does). Thus, they become psuedo-elders/GB'rs (probably were inside, too). Neither can live... and just let live, no. They can barely sleep when they've identified a "target" that they MUST "correct/straighten out/fix/change." So, okay, I get it now. Not about me, at all.]

    Really... ya'll (and particularly you), really need to get that checked out. Please. Consider it. Because this is not healthy... for YOU.

    And I mean NO offense - I am not an arm-chair psyche. I'm just telling you what you would tell me Right?

    A doulos of Christ,


  • Lozhasleft

    Band, can I ask you a question? I am asking in sincerity I promise you. Have you been anointed with Holy Spirit?

    Loz x

  • cofty
    Have you been anointed with Holy Spirit?

    There is no holy spirit - its just your over-active imagination.

  • Lozhasleft

    I wasn't asking you Cofty. If you reread you may note that I was asking Band.

    Loz x

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