Could the appearance of the statement at James 1:13-14 be caused b/c of the tension between 1 Chron 21:1 and 2 Sam 24:1? In other words, were first century believers struggling with these passages?
Posts by L3G
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17WHY did we used to read this verse and think that it referred to Satan? How can anyone??
by The Quiet One inin any translation you like.... .
http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-1.htm.
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Questions on Gilead and the revised NWT
by L3G infirst, thanks to zound for posting the link re: the 135th gilead graduation.
watching it got me thinking.... .
some years back (2007-2009?
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L3G
DOYKL,
Agreed, we should not expect much in the way of scholarship in the revised NWT since JWs are not scholars. However, some members here (the seacher and bobcat) have found at least one instance of it in a passage from Ephesians:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/265247/1/REVISED-NWT-IS-TRUTHFUL#.UmPwD7_FExc
As to the changing character of Gilead, that happened in 2011, several years after they kicked out the old instructors. In the interim it carried on like it had for decades.
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Questions on Gilead and the revised NWT
by L3G infirst, thanks to zound for posting the link re: the 135th gilead graduation.
watching it got me thinking.... .
some years back (2007-2009?
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L3G
First, thanks to zound for posting the link re: the 135th Gilead graduation. Watching it got me thinking…
Some years back (2007-2009?) Lawrence Bowen and Wallace Liverance (and perhaps Mark Noumair) were suddenly dismissed as Gilead instructors, evidently for calling into question the "NWT and some doctrines," according to Bethelite Elder. Plenty of threads were started at this forum as a result. Some reported that they were told that they were lucky the hadn't been DFed for disagreeing with the borg. A few examples:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/177237/1/Two-Gilead-Instructors-let-go#.UmPDDb_FHL8
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/187743/1/Mark-Noumair-oh-yeah#.UmPKvr_FHL8
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/228410/1/The-WTS-Brain-Drain#.UmPLlr_FHL8
(see especially Jesuit Scholar's comment in this last link)
The recent revision and release of the NWT makes me wonder about a pattern seen before in borg history. That is, there is someone (or group) who sees something in need of change within the WTS and either brings this out or, far more dangerously, tries to do something about it. The organizational powers come down hard on this person or persons, punish him or them, and only then does the borg set about doing something to fix the problem. A good example of this is the homegrown hospital committees that Jim Penton reported that started in Canada years ago, to help publishers deal with doctors and hospitals who put pressure on Witnesses about taking blood transfusions, find doctors willing to treat Witnesses while respecting their stand on blood, etc. The GB back then put those committees out of business, but then shortly afterward began such officially sanctioned ones in several countries, basically doing the same thing the Canadian R&F ones had been doing.
This has led to two questions that I'd like to throw out for discussion.
1. So is the recent revision of the NWT at least partly the result of these guys' (and others') criticisms? It would sure fit the historical pattern.
2. I'm curious about the current Gilead program, its instructors, and how it's structured. According to the video of the most recent class's graduation, the instructors are now Sam Robertson, William Samuelson, and Michael Burnett. Who are these men? What are they like? Surely some members here must know some things about them. Finally, does the current Gilead school fall under the supervision of Anthony Morris? He seems to be the main character in the vid so I'm assuming it's mainly his baby.
Anyone's help here will be appreciated.
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monthly report
by search4truth inhas anyone refused hand in monthly report with explanation that this practice is not biblical and what were the consequences of that ?
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L3G
I knew one pioneer who used to go out socializing with non-Witnesses (sports events, eating out, etc.) and occasionally mention something about "the truth." Then he'd count the whole time he'd spent with the "worldlings" as field service time. Therefore it was easy for him to rack up his pioneer hours. Makes you wonder how many of those hours are real! It's like those field ministry experiences you hear about from the platform at assemblies. One pioneer told me he was ordered to just make them up so as to "encourage the brothers."
Can your imagine the first century Christians making out these reports and then sending them to Jerusalem or wherever? Ha! The apostles in Jerusalem are swamped with little pieces of papyrus... Then they make out long manuscripts with summaries of all the details and send them out to Corinth, Phillipi, Rome etc. Do you think there are Witnesses who suppose such things really happened?
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Who remembers the time cards we filled out?
by Decided ini just thought about them a few minutes ago.
you put how many hours you spent in service and the amount of mags.
and books you placed(sold).
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L3G
Tim Hooper, That website is funny! I don't remember those field service report slips being "top secret" as the website labels them. They were avaialble to all.
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I have never understood how they know Jesus returned. What is the evidence they use?
by Faithful Witness ini just finished reading the articles that tell us that the last 100 years of turmoil are supposed to be proof that jesus is on the throne.
i have always been confused about this, especially when i compare it to what the bible says about his return.
matthew 24:27 says, "for just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the son of man will be.".
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L3G
Some thoughts--not that I am defending them! They draw a distinction between Christ's coming and his presence (different Greek words). For the invisible presence thing they draw on the OT concept that Jehovah was invisibly present in the cloud that was with the Israelites wandering the wilderness for 40 years and Jesus coming in the clouds (Acts 1:11, Rev 1:7). For the meaning of presence as not simply coming they draw on Paul's words at Phil. 2:12.
Again, I'm not defending their position, but that's some of what I remember. Others at this forum are more learned in the WT publications (for example, Blondie) than I am. Perhaps they can offer more here for you.
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No more by us!
by Atlantis inno more boes or kingdom ministries will be posted by us on this board.
there is a very important reason why!
beware of anyone encouraging you to post any boes on this board.
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L3G
Atlantis,
That old saying about how we don't always appreciate something until we don't have it is true. First, I too must thank you for your many unselfish shares. You have done a great service in helping us stay current with their secret and often devious plans. Now I feel guity that I haven't thanked you sooner!
Is there somewhere else we can get this stuff? Please PM me...
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Proof of a Kingdom Hall being sold to a church!
by Sittingstraight1212 init cracks me up if you bring this subject up to a witness , they always try to convince themselves that i'm reading into this!!!.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqwknq31ie&feature=youtube_gdata_player.
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L3G
It's not that rare. One hall I attended was sold to a church too. They'll take just about anyone's money.
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Mark Sanderson - Why Is the Newest GB Member Suddenly So Prominent?
by Oubliette ini've noticed something that is very odd even by wt/gb standards.
why is mark sanderson suddenly so prominent in all things wt/jw?.
others have commented on the obvious narcissism of the gb pushing themselves to the fore recently, in particular after their huge doctrinal change at proclaiming themselves and only themselves as the faithful and discreet slave.. this is clearly true as evidenced at the agm, not only throughout the agm, but also in the video that was featured as part of that meeting.
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L3G
konceptual99 has hit the nail on the head--nice insight!
One thought I can share from my active days. Once the changes began in earnest after the big "apostasy" of the early 1980s, as things moved so that Jaracz put himself in charge, I asked a old bro. who'd been highpowered in the borg why the other GB members let Jaracz run the show. His answer was insightful. He said that when one gets really old, one just wants the younger men to take care of matters. It was easier that way for the for the older ones. At that time Jaracz was the youngest man on the GB.
Now who's the youngest one today?
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New JW Bible nickname
by JWOP ini had a face to face conversation with an active jw today.
i was informed that they congregations don't like the new bible being referred to as the "gray bible", so some are starting to refer to it as the silver sword.. .
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L3G
JWOP, Yes, gray can be silver in the spiritual paradise.
George, Does it seem to you that they are trying to inflate the number of RVs in this way? It reminds me of the doorstep bible study, really just a glorified RV that was upgraded to pad the stats on Bible studies.