Bugbear

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Posts by Bugbear

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  57

  Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

  some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

  i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

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  Bugbear

  Simon

  You are quite right as you said: But it's just empty claims with anecdotes….

  Being associated with JW:s for over 40 years and in close connections to 4 diff. congregations I have only heard of two very concrete cases where there is no doubt ..it was suicide. But then again, what is very truly suicide? One elder about 55 years of age, with many children…taking his car in the middle of the night with no security belts, driving into a mountain face in 120 km/hour??? Or a young pioneer whit a motorbike driving from a bridge into a river with just about the same speed…? Those cases were not considered as suicide, even though the insurance company insisted on it…
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  57

  Jehovah's Witness / ex-JW Suicide Rate?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  it's no secret that both remaining a jw or leaving the wts can take a toll on mental health.

  some will suffer from depression and ultimately some will have thoughts of suicide and a few will succumb to those.. but i don't recall ever seeing any hard stats or studies on it though.

  i'm sure we all know of some people who have committed suicide but i don't know if, because you may have loose association with a much larger pool of people through the religion, that this only seems higher or maybe not be actually higher than the general population.. what i mean is, you go to a kh here there maybe 100-150 people, you attend circuit and district conventions with many tens of thousands - if any one person commits suicide then you likely hear about it and it becomes part of the anecdotal 'evidence' that is then put forward as a fact that there is a higher rate ... but is there?.

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  Bugbear

  Here is a link to some that think he knows what he´s talking about:

  http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1824
  
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  8

  Much of the Old Testament accounts do not seem to be historical, shows internal evidence

  by anointed1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ezekiel 16 gives a brief history of israel.

  surprisingly, it has no resemblance with what we already know about israel—their origin and progress as given in the prophecy genesis 22:15-18 and also in the description that follows.

  ezekiel repeatedly says (16:2, 45) “your ancestry and birth were in the land of the canaanites; your father was an amorite [descended from one of the sons of canaan (genesis 14:7), occupied large parts of southern mesopotamia, and their god was amurru] and your mother a hittite [ancient anatolian people who established an empire centered on hattusa].

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  Bugbear

  Another thing in the old test is the parallel scriptures. The Kings the book of Samuel the chronicles, and other seems to be copies of copies of copies of translations. Is there anyone that remembers that the society takes up these embarrassing duplets of the same texts?? Duplets of the same story, this with all the mistakes the translators have made when wrestling with the scrolls. I think that Raymond Franz did mention the Parallels in one of the first “Aid” editions, but the footnotes disappeared in the coming Aid books

  Has anyone tried to investigate these matters…?
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  3

  Cognitive dissonance

  by Bugbear in

  1. social
  2. current

  just happened to get my hands of a scientific report that might interest some of us with relatives who suffer for cognitive dissonance.

  article is published in natural scientific report nr.

  39589. writers are jona t kaplan sara gimbal and sam harris, and the abstract says .

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  Bugbear

  Freddo!

  I think my ”silverbullet” is named education. As a former elder with a fulltime job and 6 children covered up with endless meetings, preparations, family studies… I got 4 hart strokes, depression, and other psycho social diseases. That released the time I needed to take up University studies. I never liked the Idea from the Soc. that no education was necessary, “cause the time is so near now” And I always encouraged all my children to get the highest education they could get…. Together with my children, we used the system in Sweden with free education…. And of course carefully investigate all things scrupulously to make all things sure, we found that all the “sure” things we learned from Watchtower was not sure. In fact they were lies they were frauds, this in order to collect more and more money (free labor) from their slaves. Unfortunately my wife has not yet awakened, still living in her cognitive dissonance. She knows a lot about the age of humans, the absence of the flood, the Bibels unsureness. The horrifying stories that actually is in the Bible….But still prefer to “have her friends” in th KH
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  3

  Cognitive dissonance

  by Bugbear in

  1. social
  2. current

  just happened to get my hands of a scientific report that might interest some of us with relatives who suffer for cognitive dissonance.

  article is published in natural scientific report nr.

  39589. writers are jona t kaplan sara gimbal and sam harris, and the abstract says .

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  Bugbear

  Still my wife is still in. It doesn,t look like she ever will realize that she is trapped in in a mindset. But sometimes I realize that her children and grandchildren means more to her then a total disaster of lies from the GB. Slowly slowly we are trying to get her out of this mindset…and eventually before she dies…. She will understand TTATT… Thanks for responding
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  3

  Cognitive dissonance

  by Bugbear in

  1. social
  2. current

  just happened to get my hands of a scientific report that might interest some of us with relatives who suffer for cognitive dissonance.

  article is published in natural scientific report nr.

  39589. writers are jona t kaplan sara gimbal and sam harris, and the abstract says .

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  Bugbear

  Just happened to get my hands of a scientific report that might interest some of us with relatives who suffer for cognitive dissonance. Article is published In Natural Scientific report Nr. 2016 No. 39589. Writers are Jona T Kaplan Sara Gimbal and Sam Harris, and the abstract says

  When the Brain Won't Change Its Mind

  Neural correlates of maintaining one’s political beliefs in the face of counterevidence

  Abstract
  People often discount evidence that contradicts their firmly held beliefs. However, little is known about the neural mechanisms that govern this behavior. We used neuroimaging to investigate the neural systems involved in maintaining belief in the face of counterevidence, presenting 40 liberals with arguments that contradicted their strongly held political and non-political views. Challenges to political beliefs produced increased activity in the default mode network—a set of interconnected structures associated with self-representation and disengagement from the external world. Trials with greater belief resistance showed increased response in the dorsomedial prefrontal cortex and decreased activity in the orbitofrontal cortex. We also found that participants who changed their minds more showed less BOLD signal in the insula and the amygdala when evaluating counterevidence. These results highlight the role of emotion in belief-change resistance and offer insight into the neural systems involved in belief maintenance, motivated reasoning, and related phenomena.

  Good luch with reading it....

  
  
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  24

  Has waking up ever made you physically ill?

  by fizzle in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has waking up ever made you physically ill?

  perhaps because of the emotional strain etc..?.

  if if so what were / are the symptoms?.

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  Bugbear

  Yes very definitely. I have had serious problem with my health. Being an elder with full time work on day, having 6 children to raise and a lot of feeling quilt, for not reaching average preaching hours and trying to fulfill all my duties. And starting to fade and knowing TTATT, put me into to a depression crisis, hi blood pressure and finally 4 hart strokes. Could have been ended up in death… Fortunately my doctors understood my situation , They recommended me to quit everything and that was the best that could have happened to me…… The cong. understood that I was no longer available due to my hearth disease, and leaved me alone….I finally, I had the time to start to investigate very carefully the core of religion and specific cult religion as JW:ism, Scientology, LDS, and other, Knowledge is the very realize, to deliberate you and make you feel like a real human. The only thing a feel sorry for are all the “friends” that are still in…..
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  9

  My JW Sister Called Me Last Night

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my sister called me quite out of the blue last night.

  she's a full on active jw and actively shunning me like the rest of the family are.

  i dont quite know the reason why she felt last night was the right time to call but im glad she did.

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  Bugbear

  Sorry to tell you that your sister suffers from a mental decease called: PTFE brain, or Fact resistant brain. (PTFE similar to Teflon) . Her brain is so stuffed with wrong information, that she is unable to coop with any other facts then those coming from WBTS. There are a variety of this disorder called : cognitive dissonance. Meaning that she knows there is another world outside the cult, but are unable to understand what she must do. This due to other social relations. But obviously she is seeking your attention, and that is good unless she is only counting the hours….!? The good news is that this “disorder” can be cured; however it takes a long time and a lot of patience from you…
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  62

  Meeting Attendance levels

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i attended a sunday meeting today after missing a couple due to a bout of chronic apathy.

  out of 74 publishers we had a grand total of 33. wonderful.

  for those that attend, how are you finding the numbers?.

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  Bugbear

  In 1990 we build a new KH in my little town in northern Europe. We were about 65 publishers and the KH hall could take 125. Today my wife tells me (she is still in) that the average ns. of attendees is 25, except for when the CO comes , then maybe 35 shows up. This means that very little money is coming in the money box… I wonder when they decide to sell it of??
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  20

  How many times did you see a JW start a business

  by karter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with the intention of spending less time working and more time in f.s i saw this many times.

  an ex c.o started a carpet cleaning business with the charter being spending less time working more time in f.s.

  he has long since passed away and the company is now huge being the major player in flood resteration and employing 100's of people one of the owners i spoke to recently was sick due to using to many chemicals but carries on becouse he loves the money even though he's worth millions.

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  Bugbear

  In my country almost all brothers and sisters are unqualified to have any ordinary job. They haven´t got the education enough to fit todays labor market. So many of them are freelancers, cleaning windows, carrying out the morning papers, doing the lawn. Many of them are doing these sorts of jobs as moonlighting jobs from other brothers in the cong. So quite a number of them have at retirement, no retirement points, they have not a nickel when they are ready to go.
  luckily enough, in our country, we do have a welfare system that will keep them alive on a minimum level. But when their cars are broken, the dentist need their payment, when their spouse need a descent funeral, the brothers in the congregation announce that there is a brother in need….

  I can see in their eyes that they feel so ashamed of their situation, specially they that worked full time as CO,s and pioneers…. I feel that they were tricked by soc. to believe that the end was so so so SO close now… The soc. don´t give a shit about these sad people…