Posts by wokeup

9

Christrians: Why are JWs so aganist being born aganin/Salvation?

by A-Team in

in the past 3 weeks, i have had 2 jws deny salvation or say that only the 144k have to be born again and 1 even going as far as asking "what do i need to be saved from?

" but yet, there are several bible scriptures that says otherwise.

please discuss.

wokeup

For decades the Watchtower message has been this: The kingdom of the heavens is closed. You do not belong to Christ, cannot be baptised into Christ, have his spirit nor his mediatorship.

One must cast aside any notion that the NT writings directly apply to you. God's word and spirit are not sufficient to guide and direct christians. Their impotence are manifested by the stressed allegiance and obedience to the 'sole channel' between god and men. Right or wrong, loyalty at all costs.

The NT message of redemption and grace has been so adulterated that it takes mental gymnatics for a witness to explain even the simplicity of Eph.4:4-6. Or re-defining the word 'All' at Matt: 28:18 with the 1914 doctrine to deflect Christs' authority in a christians' life.

Adding the 'dedication vow' as a pre-requisite to baptism despite it's stark absence from the accounts found in the book of Acts has created 6 million people trying to 'live up' to a vow rather than for the one who purchased them.( 2 Cor.5:15).

Allen

84

What Was your Favorite Music Concert you attended, group or solo artist?

by flipper in

jw
friends

hello ya'll.

mr. flipper here.

my wonderful son who as you know i always brag about.

wokeup

My most memorable free concert was seeing a group perform at the Golden Gate Park. The group was called 'It's a Beautiful Day' they performed their hit "White Bird' It was a touching song with a beautiful violin lead. That was decades ago.

My first indoor Concert was at the Oakland Coleseum. Saw the Isley Brothers. An upcoming group called Graham Central Station was the opening act that night.

The most entertaining I thought was seeing Tina Turner perform at the Circle Star Theater along with B.B King and Bobby Blue Bland. The theater had a revolving stage which provided an unusual visual experience. That was in the late 70's.

31

2007 DRAMA ON YouTube!!!!

by whereami in

jw
friends

it's all about power!!!!

all 9 parts are there.

enjoy, and don't forget to let us know what you think.

wokeup

I just saw the youtube video.I thought the fictitious 'friend' of Timothy in last years' drama was bad enough, denigrating secular education.

The fictitious dialog, the over exagerations. Going beyond the things written is an understatement.

For the sole purpose to create a 'lesson' for the rank & file. Gehazis' lament about serving Elisha for 10 years

without pay surely showed what an ingrate he was. Surely no modern day parallel exists for the 'other sheep'?

24

Undisclosed Revelation Book Changes show "Jehovah" is "The Lamb"

by AlphaOmega in

as we all know, in 2006 there were some undisclosed changes to the 1988 revelation climax book.. these scans of page 127 (chapter 20) are identical except for the alteration from "the lamb" to "jehovah".. http://i15.tinypic.com/2qvzgya.jpg.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2nukpd0.jpg.

since this change was not listed in the september 2006 kingdom ministry, are we to conclude that it is not "a key change" and the alteration is merely semantics?

wokeup

This change you noted in the Revelation book reminded me of the footnote in 1 thess.4:16,17 in the new world translation. Each occurance of the word 'Lord' mentioned is not supposed to be Jesus. The footnote says it's jehovah that decends and calls out with an archangels voice and meets them in the air. Wonder how many party loyalists ever picked up on that?

98

I just got back from my circuit assembly !

by 5go in

ok i have listed all the intresting and thought provoking things.

hear they are from a to z.

<----------- yep nothing.. .

wokeup

I too suffered thru it with my daughter and her family. The usual invocations to loyality and obedience to the leadership, The D.O. vilifying college in earnest.1914,1914, $5,000 expenses for 574 people to use of the old paid for assemblyhall. An 80 year old publisher who hasn't missed a meeting since 1945. Annonymous life stories of those who gave up 6 figure executive jobs to clean toilets(literally) at the same business in the name of putting first 'kingdom interests'. Jesus was mentioned briefly 5 times in 2 days. One speaker spoke highly about the organization 4 times in his prayer and thanked him for the 'life giving provisions' provided by the'slave'.

It was the dedication/baptism talk which stood out the most. Dedicating oneself, living up to that dedication thru works and associating with the f/s as manditory for salvation .No dedication scriptures cited as a prerequisite to baptism (are there any?) Not one baptism scripture cited. Only scripture was Phil.2:12 The speaker only mentioned Jesus once during the whole talk. Only to say he did NOT play a role in prayer. He was no 'switch board operator'.In his closing prayer closed it with 'thruyoursonandourkingchristjesusweofferthisprayeramen'. (flicker of new 'light'?) John 14:6 null and void?

15

Does anyone else take Atenolol or Nitro-Glycerine?

by ohiocowboy in

i just got back from the doctor yesterday after discovering that my angina and valvular regurgitation from mitral valve prolapse are getting worse, and the angina lasting longer, and getting more intense.

i was on calan-(verapamil), but have now been switched to atenolol and nitro.

i was prescribed the nitro before, but never used it, as i was afraid to take it.

wokeup

My cardiologist prescribed atenolol about 5 years ago when I was plagued with 1,000 of PVC's a day, keeping me in a state of anxiety. My chest felt like I was on a roller coaster. I too have prolapsed mitral valve with regurgitation and had high blood pressure with diastolics running in the low 100's. The atenolol (50mg.) made my life normal again. My B/P has been stable. The PVC's occur rarely and overall I have to say the low pulse rate keeps me feeling pretty mellow.

Allen

15

How many near death scary stuff happened to you?

by kls in

did you ever think that you should have died.

i mean like scary stuff that happened to you and wonder why you are still here .

i have had so many but the one's that stick out of my mind are ,when i took my son ( who was 16 at the time ) for a drive in my 1968 charger, when i heard a pop, i was going up a hill and all of a sudden flames started to shoot out of the hood.

wokeup

The flood of memories is pouring in, almost drowned at a Labor Day picnic in 69, nearly decapitated in 75, hit by a car in 76, nearly plummeted to my death coming down the Santa Cruz mountains on Hwy 17 with total brake failure one night in 78. Memory lane is killing me. Gotta stop while I'm ahead.

Allen

15

How many near death scary stuff happened to you?

by kls in

did you ever think that you should have died.

i mean like scary stuff that happened to you and wonder why you are still here .

i have had so many but the one's that stick out of my mind are ,when i took my son ( who was 16 at the time ) for a drive in my 1968 charger, when i heard a pop, i was going up a hill and all of a sudden flames started to shoot out of the hood.

wokeup

How can I forget, I almost perished in a house fire 40 years ago.

15

How many near death scary stuff happened to you?

by kls in

did you ever think that you should have died.

i mean like scary stuff that happened to you and wonder why you are still here .

i have had so many but the one's that stick out of my mind are ,when i took my son ( who was 16 at the time ) for a drive in my 1968 charger, when i heard a pop, i was going up a hill and all of a sudden flames started to shoot out of the hood.

wokeup

The first one I remember was in 1967, we lived next to the Southern Pacific Railroad tracks in East Menlo Park. I was goofing around on the tracks that shift next to the Bay about a half mile north of the old Dumbarten Bridge and an approaching train caused the tracks to move and pinned my foot. As the train bore down on me I thought I was a goner. As the train engineer jammed on the brakes I was hysterical . At the last second I pulled my foot out of the shoe and fell back onto the rocks. Needless to say, I never did that again.

In 1969 a friend of my dad who had a fishing boat had invited us to go fishing with him that Saturday off the San Francisco coast. The day before my mother had a bad feeling about it and backed out. Late the next day, word reached us that his boat had capsized and his body and another companion washed ashore.

Many more close calls over the past 35 years, I try to forget them.

Allen

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17

The Governing Body - Invisible and Impersonal

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

there used to be a time when one knew who the president of the watchtower society was, and with that in mind, one could sense some kind of leadership.

perhaps witnesses then, felt that "the society" was keeping up with jehovah's celestial chariot.

maybe you felt in the 80s and 90s that you had to keep "in step with jehovah's organization" because it was making bigger steps each year - and with each new release, maybe you felt "privileged" to be a part of the "spiritual paradise.".

wokeup

The organizations' leadership has for decades cultivated and carefully perpetuated the notion that their conjecture and speculation on the scriptures is Jehovah himself revealing his will to the party faithful. .

Their power comes from the perception by the R/F that governing body/faithful slave = Jehovah. It's not them speaking but God .

Group photos of old men bent over and in wheelchairs would shatter the aura and mystery associated with the ' faithful slave'. Owning up to the authorship of their articles by signing their names as one would find in other literary works would do much to shatter the image they have so long cultivated.

Allen